crazyboy25 Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 i realize this thread has been dead for i while but i had a question. i just attempted to make black powder and after about 4 hours in the ball mill i did a burn test i was suprised how slow it burned. is this normal? here is a picture after ball milled for 4 hours http://179.photobucket.com/albums/w318/cra...25/100_0761.jpg and here is a video of a burn test black powder burn test i am using firefox hardwood charcoal. i am planning on using this for BP rockets, lift powder, black match, quickmatch etc. tell me if this is acceptable grade black powder. sorry the picture is so big thanks
deadman Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 That reminds me alot of my euc BP that was milled for probably 8-10 hours in a harbor freight mill. I believe it would work for black/quick match and rockets. For lift it is not going to be so great. It's more of a shove than a propel in my experience, unless you confine very well. Why do people insist on using pyro supplier charcoals? I'm not trying to knock it but it has been shown again and again it is quite slow unless milled in a highly efficient mill. Try to make a small batch of white pine charcoal and mill that for 12-18 hours and check out the difference. Cheaper, no waiting on shipping, and faster.
crazyboy25 Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 i need lift woould this work if i just used more. and also i dont know much about charcoal i dont have white pine growing in my backyard is it just regualr pine? or can i buy? i tend to find charcoals very confusing they are not at all straight foward. also do you have a simple way to make charcoal? i appreciate any help i can get.
Mumbles Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 Please don't post images that large. If you can't take the time to resize them, at least post a link instead of the whole picture. It makes it annoying to read. I edited it to a url anyway. White pine is definatly a specific pine. Look up some tree guides and it will help you to find it. Needle number, and shape are very helpful. Do yourself a favor, and try tto get something better that white pine to start with. I'd go for willow if you can. Weeping willow is a pretty unique looking tree, and hard to mistake. They are often found near water. As far as making charcoal, it's pretty easy. Take whatever wood you choose, break off any loose bark, and split it into thin sticks, say 3/8" in diameter or so. Place this in a coffee can, or paint can or something. Cover the top with several layers of aluminum foil, and poke a hole with a pencil in the center. Place on a fire until it stops smoking. Cover the top with another layer of foil to keep air out until it cools. It should take a few hours for finish cooking, and then to cool again. There is a very nice small scale setup somewhere on the forum by qwezxc12. I like to place an aluminum foil liner in the coffee can I use to keep the tar off the sides of the container. After you make the charcoal, you can just throw the foil away.
deadman Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 I was actually talking about the lumber when I said white pine. Weeping willow does seam to be very abundant. I never noticed, but as I look around it is used as a very common front yard tree and happens to be common around the local creek and river. DeadFX: What type of mill do you use? I know you don't want to dip into your funds, but you may want to invest in some lead media. I have read a lot about people using marbles. I don't know how great of an idea that is, but lead is going to be more efficient anyway due to the weight. If you can't cast your own try spending 9-12 dollars on .50 caliber balls for muzzleloaders. You may be able to find hardened lead, but it's not entirely necessary. So check your local gun shop. Something like these http://www.smsguns.com/images/Muzzle%20Loa...%2050%20Cal.jpg
DeAdFX Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 hmm I use that crummy 3lb harbor freight rock tumbler. When I get a job and some money I think I might invest some money in one of these bad boys. http://stores.ebay.com/Ball-Mills-N-Rock-Tumblers The price is a bit high but apparently this guy has some top notch equipment. He also sells ceramic media too. Any who I really want to get some nice milling media but saving up for something better is really tempting. Hmmm I wish $1000 would just fall into my lap O by the way Hex nuts weren't as great as I played them out to be. My nuts are getting worn out pretty badly. They look rounder, more like circles than hexagons.
deadman Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 Well those would definitley work much better, but you could make one on your own very cheaply that would work just as well. Plus you could still use the barrel you have now saving your money for some good media. Whatever you do, good luck.
FrankRizzo Posted May 10, 2007 Posted May 10, 2007 Those ball mills that you linked to via eBay are built by Matt Romey of Hobby Fireworks (ebay userid: hobfir). Instead of purchasing one through his eBay store, you'd be much better off buying a purpose-built unit with a wooden enclosure from his site for less than half the price. Hobby Fireworks: Ball Mills
_DB_ Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 My BP after four hours in the mill is usually about that speed. I normally let it mill for close to 24 hours. May be a bit overkill but I like to be sure.
pyro4life Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 Thats pretty slow, good for fuse, rockets, fountains but no good for lift by quite a bit. Your either milling too much powder at one/not enough lead balls or your mill is running to fast or too slow what size mill you got any pics? Use willow charcoal aswel and you will see a big improvement - good black powder should burn in a quick woomph not slow like that. I mill 100g of bp in 3-4 hours with this mill i made (cost me about 30 quid) - http://youtube.com/watch?v=gAl9t68auLs i only use 100 lead balls need to buy some more then i can mill decent stuff in a couple of hours or mill a few hundred grams in 4 hours or so. Try lightly spraying your green mix before milling this also speeds it up a bit but the best way it finding better charcoal to start with, you want soft not hard wood i think.
deadman Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 There is not a consistency with softwoods over hardwoods. Some hardwoods are faster than others. The same goes for softwoods.
Mumbles Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 In general, the fastest BP's are made with hardwoods. Willow, Balsa, Aspen, etc are all hardwoods.
pyro4life Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 Balsa is classed as hardwood? thought it was soft - no idea about difference types of wood but from my experience with balsa its very soft to handle ...or is the term soft/hardwood not the same as the wood actually being soft/hard (soft as in poking your nail into it and indenting the surface)?
Mumbles Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 Balsa is classed as hardwood? thought it was soft - no idea about difference types of wood but from my experience with balsa its very soft to handle ...or is the term soft/hardwood not the same as the wood actually being soft/hard (soft as in poking your nail into it and indenting the surface)? Thats correct. Softwood hardwood classification is done by reproductve structure, and has nothing to do with strength or physical hardness of the wood.. Basically decidious trees are hardwoods, and coniferous trees are softwoods. If you really care to know the difference, hardwoods have covered seeds, and softwoods have exposed seeds. It pretty much correlates with the decidious/conifer classification.
crazyboy25 Posted May 11, 2007 Posted May 11, 2007 in reply to pyro4life i am using a 3LB capacity ball mill with harded lead balls. that was a 100g batch but i left that in the mill for 10 more hours since my original post and i have had a gret improvement. i may post pics/burntest video again when i have the time.
pyro4life Posted May 12, 2007 Posted May 12, 2007 Learn something new every day! Good stuff that you got it burning faster iv just milled 100 g of meal,red gum and dextrin for 2 hours and have just riced it so il see how it burned when i get up tomorrow if its good will make some mines, shells and rockets. Just a new method im trying to make hard little granuals without using a press, mixed the comp with about 50/50 iso alc/water so il see what happens tomorrow should be fast stuff!
deadman Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 An interesting hardwood fact. "Soft maple" is a hardwood. I think pine is a soft wood and can perform well.
poisonkiller Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 I made today some uncomplete BP. It means i only used charcoal and KNO3(no S, cant afford buying it atm) and it burned quite fast(for me ), but there was something strange about it. When it was burning some strange bubbles came out of it. It may have something to do with my method to get kno3(KNO3/NaNO3 + KCl -> 2KNO3 + NaCl), but im not sure. Is it normal for a BP without sulfur?
_DB_ Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 How did you blend the BP? Mill or what? Sounds like the KNO3 isn't mixed completely.
Mumbles Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 It is called pearling. It's potassium carbonate mostly. The sulfur helps prevent this from happening, as well as increasing gas production, and lowering ignition temperature. Serviceable BP can be made without sulfur, but it burns less clean, and generally requires a slightly different ratio that 3:1.
crazyboy25 Posted May 13, 2007 Posted May 13, 2007 are you sure you have the propritiopns right? sometimes unused components such as the oxidisers and fuel melt and reform without being consumed by the reaction. sulfur is pretty cheap i am suprised you dont have any.
poisonkiller Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 I think I'll just gather some money and try again with sulfur included.
pudidotdk Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 I recently made some granulated BP using homemade willow charcoal and compared to my granulated christmas-fir BP. The fir was best.
DeAdFX Posted May 19, 2007 Posted May 19, 2007 Hmm it appears that I just needed to mill my BP for much longer. I think I am on hour # 30. These hex nuts are really inefficent but o well I am going to have some awesome BP very very soon.
Mumbles Posted May 20, 2007 Posted May 20, 2007 What kind of charcoal are you using DeadFX? I would think that your mill is more of a problem in inefficiency than the media. Though they may not have a sufficient mass with the threaded hole down the center. Perhaps you could fill the hole in with lead if you wanted to heft them up. I'm sure people have mentioned this before, but I wouldn't recomend milling live comps with steel media, even if it is stainless steel. Stainless steel is only spark resistant.
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