Black Powder Thread #1

[Caramanos2000]

Is the newspaper bp fast enough for lift or break charges?

[Mumbles]

Here, let me show you a neat trick.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/Mumbles/Edit.JPG

[Caramanos2000]

Lol, ok. thanks for taking some of ur time to explain it.

Yay I learned.

[qwezxc12]

Thanks qwezxc12!

 

I went down to a local hardware store and this really cool old guy helped me find all the stuff. I picked up some vinyl tubing and tee joints for a condenser for general chemistry projects. Then we got the compression fitting and the lamp pipe nipple and nuts. Then...

"So... building a still?"

"... maybe..."

"Haha, well this should work just fine."

 

I can't stress just how cool of an old guy this was. Anways, i got it all set up on my paint bucket pretty much just like you have it. AND now i have another idea on how to build part of my EtOH still when i get around to it.

 

asilentbob,

 

Please let me know how it works...(the 'maybe' still, too )

[Caramanos2000]

I made a homemade mortar and shell set to try my lift. Shells are 1/2"x 1 1/2" long. Here it is:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/Caramanos2000/HomemadeMortar.jpg

 

Video

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/Ca...nistershell.flv

[viziers]

Willow is a SOFTWOOD. why all this confusion saying it is a hardwood? Many technical tests with willow wood show it has the best properties for making BP and should produce the best results.

 

Also they polish grains of BP to stop the BP taking on water. The graphite seals the BP making it last longer and work better in humid conditions.

No, Willow is a Hardwood. Softwood means from a conifer. Everything else is automatically a hardwood. These classifications have no relation to the woods density or strength. The hardest softwood (I believe it is Sitka Spruce) is considerably harder and stronger than the softest hardwood. Sitka spruce is, weight for weight, many times stronger than steel.

 

Willow is far from the best wood for BP charcoal. Balsa, paulownia, cottonwood, alder, poplar, white pine, aspen, spruce, and maple charcoals all beat weeping willow in burn rate and lifting ability. Black willow is better, but still beat by Cottonwood, alder, balsa, and paulownia.

What about a wood called IPEA (sp) this is the wood i used to build the deck at my house and this wood can not be nailed into with a Phneumatic (sp) nail gun nor can it be dented with a hammer all the boards had to be predrilled and had to use stainless steel screws which somtimes broke while screwing them in.

 

Would this be an exceptable wood/charcoal to use?

[Umphrey]

What about a wood called IPEA (sp)

You're refering to ipê, a wood from the genus tabebuia. I acquired some ipe scrap wood from a boardwalk constuction, I too had the idea of making charcoal out of it. It was quite difficult to deal with, it was surprisingly difficult to cut. I filled a cookie tin with ~150grams of ipe wood and placed it on a propane burner, it finally stopped smoking after more than an hour passed, which indicated to me it was time to take it off the burner. When I opened the tin the next day the charcoal was extremely hard and uncooked in the middle. I tried again with a fresh batch of wood, which I cooked for 2.5 hours. This time it was fully cooked.

 

It made decent black powder, not particularly fast, but it produced lots of orange sparks. I tried it in a fountain and in spider stars, it was a similar effect to pine charcoal except the sparks were very short lived.

I believe ipe wood has interesting properties for charcoal, unfortunately I only had two boards of it, so my research is at a standstill.

[viziers]

What about a wood called IPEA (sp)

You're refering to ipê, a wood from the genus tabebuia. I acquired some ipe scrap wood from a boardwalk constuction, I too had the idea of making charcoal out of it. It was quite difficult to deal with, it was surprisingly difficult to cut. I filled a cookie tin with ~150grams of ipe wood and placed it on a propane burner, it finally stopped smoking after more than an hour passed, which indicated to me it was time to take it off the burner. When I opened the tin the next day the charcoal was extremely hard and uncooked in the middle. I tried again with a fresh batch of wood, which I cooked for 2.5 hours. This time it was fully cooked.

 

It made decent black powder, not particularly fast, but it produced lots of orange sparks. I tried it in a fountain and in spider stars, it was a similar effect to pine charcoal except the sparks were very short lived.

I believe ipe wood has interesting properties for charcoal, unfortunately I only had two boards of it, so my research is at a standstill.

Well i have roughly 35ft of 5 1/2" X 3/4" boards will have to try it out.You said it took 2.5 hrs to fully cook? Sheesh! Sounds like it would mage for good TT or Orange Rain effect.

 

Vizi

[Umphrey]

Well i have roughly 35ft of 5 1/2" X 3/4" boards will have to try it out.You said it took 2.5 hrs to fully cook? Sheesh! Sounds like it would mage for good TT or Orange Rain effect.

Yes, it seems to take an obscene amount of time to cook fully, but I might of overcooked it a bit at 2.5 hours, and obviously it depends on the heat of the flame it's cooking on. I can normally cook a tin of charcoal on the propane grill in 30 minutes, so the excessive cooking time was quite the surprise to me. My boards were also very thick, so that probably contributed to the cooking time.

[viziers]

Well i have roughly 35ft of 5 1/2" X 3/4" boards will have to try it out.You said it took 2.5 hrs to fully cook? Sheesh! Sounds like it would mage for good TT or Orange Rain effect.

Yes, it seems to take an obscene amount of time to cook fully, but I might of overcooked it a bit at 2.5 hours, and obviously it depends on the heat of the flame it's cooking on. I can normally cook a tin of charcoal on the propane grill in 30 minutes, so the excessive cooking time was quite the surprise to me. My boards were also very thick, so that probably contributed to the cooking time.

Does the ipe compare to say the Red Alder or Narrow leaf cottonwood? Im asking because im on the east coast and need to find a good charcoal. i saw the list that was postedin earlier threads but none of themare really near me except the Silver Maple (Acer saccharinum) and thats only at 360 which is ok i guess considering i have not ever made any charcoal i usually used 4f sporting grade BP which is not doing a good enouth job for me on my bursts.

 

EDIT: After looking for a bit i came across this (Alnus serrulata) which is Hazel Alder is this anywhere near the Red Alder or is Alder Alder it doesnt matter which species it is?

[viziers]

So i guess no one has any imput on this matter of the Alder or can anyone in the mid southeast direct me in using a native wood in the area for charcoal..

 

 

Vizi

[hst45]

viziers, poplar would be a good choice. It grows from central New England south, so a local sources should be readily available.

[viziers]

viziers, poplar would be a good choice. It grows from central New England south, so a local sources should be readily available.

But is Poplar good or as good as alder? Im asking about the Hazel Alder because it is plentiful in my area.

[Mumbles]

Why not just try it out? In the end much of the charcoal and subsequent BP quality comes from the manufacturer itself. You mention you've never made charcoal before. You could have the best charcoal in the world, but if you can't prepare it correctly it won't preform to it's expectations.

 

Since you seem rather insistant on us telling you which wood is the best, I will. It doesn't matter. von Malitz' tests show that all three woods you mention (not the ipe though) give excellent charcoal. They actually mention the varieties you discuss, red alder, and narrow leaf cottonwood. They are all related to willow. I believe he said that the alder gave the best results, but all 3 ranked very high in the tests.

[viziers]

Why not just try it out?  In the end much of the charcoal and subsequent BP quality comes from the manufacturer itself.  You mention you've never made charcoal before.  You could have the best charcoal in the world, but if you can't prepare it correctly it won't preform to it's expectations.

 

Since you seem rather insistant on us telling you which wood is the best,  I will.  It doesn't matter.  von Malitz' tests show that all three woods you mention (not the ipe though) give excellent charcoal.  They actually mention the varieties you discuss, red alder, and narrow leaf cottonwood.  They are all related to willow.  I believe he said that the alder gave the best results, but all 3 ranked very high in the tests.

Mumbles im not trying to be insistant but i also do not want to Frivolously waste chemicals on a charcoal that really will not perform or one that will perform lower than Goex 4f either, So hopefully you will see that i'n not asking what is the best and I think i specifically asked about the Hazel Alder in an edit and if weather or not an alder is an alder and that it didnt matter which species it was!?

 

 

If my questions were not precise enough sorry about that i thought i was specific enough.

 

Vizi

[Frozentech]

I am pretty sure that AKPainter has tried red alder, found it worked well, but stuck with some black willow he has growing on his property. I have tried Poplar, and it works about identically to Cottonwood. (empirical results, no 'scientific' testing ) I am sticking with the cottonwood due to having about an acre of it growing on my property, and I have to cut down the saplings from it every spring anyway or they'll take over the place.

 

FYI, during the US Civil War, the Confederacy used almost exclusively Cottonwood to make Black Powder, and I can't recall anyone saying it didn't work well for them.

[viziers]

I am pretty sure that AKPainter has tried red alder, found it worked well, but stuck with some black willow he has growing on his property. I have tried Poplar, and it works about identically to Cottonwood. (empirical results, no 'scientific' testing ) I am sticking with the cottonwood due to having about an acre of it growing on my property, and I have to cut down the saplings from it every spring anyway or they'll take over the place.

 

FYI, during the US Civil War, the Confederacy used almost exclusively Cottonwood to make Black Powder, and I can't recall anyone saying it didn't work well for them.

I wish that cottonwood grew in the S.East but everything ive looked at sayes that it growin the N.West. But i have noticed that the Hazel Alder grow everywhere here so i guess im going to cut some down cook it up and hope im not wasting any chems.

[Frozentech]

I wish that cottonwood grew in the S.East but everything ive looked at sayes that it growin the N.West. But i have noticed that the Hazel Alder grow everywhere here so i guess im going to cut some down cook it up and hope im not wasting any chems.

Your wish is granted

 

The Eastern Cottonwood, Populus deltoides, grows from Vermont down to Florida, and west beyond the Mississippi. Like I said, the South used it during the Civil War, because it is so damn common, and it makes great BP charcoal. Maybe you've noticed white cottony crap floating around in the air in the spring ? Thats from cottonwood trees.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Cottonwood

[DeAdFX]

For those interested in trying mesquite charcoal from the local grocery store might be interested in this little testimony of me.

 

Hmmm a few weeks ago I bought some mesquite charcoal(the 100% natural kinda no extra junk) from the local Fred Meyers. I don't remember what brand it was but when broke the charcoal lumps into peices I saw that they were black on the inside. I assume that is good.

 

Anywho I made two 100 gram batches of this stuff. One batch was milled for 5 hours and an other milled for 10 hours. When I did a burn test on both batches I did not notice a significant burn increase in the 10 hour variant. The stuff did not burn with a poof. I would say it burned at about 1/5 - 1/3of what good BP should burn at. My ball mill was a rock tumbler sold at harbor freight and hex nuts were used as milling media.

 

I used agro grade Potassium Nitrate (should be ~97-99% purity I hear that slightly impure KNO3 doesn't affect preformance), agro grade sulfur 90% pure 10% wetting agents and mesquite charcoal 100% natural. I assume that the agro grade sulfur is holding me back a lot. This stuff burns noticably better than activated charcoal(my only comparison).

 

I am curious to what one could expect out of mesquite charcoal. Will it make a BP within 20% of the burn rate of the "best" charcoals. This is my only economical source of charcoal sooo ....

[viziers]

I wish that cottonwood grew in the S.East but everything ive looked at sayes that it growin the N.West. But i have noticed that the Hazel Alder grow everywhere here so i guess im going to cut some down cook it up and hope im not wasting any chems.

Your wish is granted

 

The Eastern Cottonwood, Populus deltoides, grows from Vermont down to Florida, and west beyond the Mississippi. Like I said, the South used it during the Civil War, because it is so damn common, and it makes great BP charcoal. Maybe you've noticed white cottony crap floating around in the air in the spring ? Thats from cottonwood trees.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Cottonwood

Frozentech your the best thank you very much for finding that information i didnt think to just Gogle "cottonwood". I actually think i might have a bunch of it in my shed its what ive been using as firewood . Frozen may i assume you might be from the S.East?

[styropyro]

I used agro grade Potassium Nitrate (should be ~97-99% purity I hear that slightly impure KNO3 doesn't affect preformance), agro grade sulfur 90% pure 10% wetting agents and mesquite charcoal 100% natural.  I assume that the agro grade sulfur is holding me back a lot.

Actually, I use ag grade KNO3 and Sulfur in my black powder and it works great for me. I learned from this site that it's only the charcoal that's the big player.

[itwasntme]

My ball mill was a rock tumbler sold at harbor freight and hex nuts were used as milling media.

 

Dude, don't use hex nuts. They are steel, and will eventually spark, and boom, there goes your mill, possibly a visit from the police. Once that happens, err, you know what happens after that. Please, don't do that. Buy some lead media.

[aquaman]

Just go to your local fishing supplies store and buy fishing weights. I also have the harbor freight ball mill (dual barrel) with a lot of extra belts and fill the barrel(s) about half full of just the lead weights and there you go. Put your BP in it and leave it on over night and you should have some relatively good BP. That's what I do and it works for me.

[DeAdFX]

Well I kinda want to know if mesquite makes decent charcoal for BP before making any more investments. My bp gets stuck in the hex nuts while milling so I assume it is hampering the milling process somewhat sooo....

[tentacles]

itwasntme: they could be stainless steel hex nuts, or brass...

 

dead: walmart carries bags of hardwood lump charcoal that can give usable results.. My firefox charcoal BP lifts my 1 3/4" easter eggs to a reasonable height when I use 5-7g for a 30-35g shell. FrankRizzo reccomended using a couple % more charcoal in my formulation, as I was getting excess sulfur residue in my mortars.

 

I've been using dollar store marbles to good effect, and very cheap.. Only been 2 runs, and I have a lead on some hardened lead for the future. (pun intended) I checked over all the marbles and bought the ones with the least amount of dings and tiny chips, and buy either clear marbles, or "cats eye" type marbles, as some other types have a thin shell on the outside which can crack off. So far they show no new dings or wear from the control group which has seen no milling at all. I would think that in larger mills the higher drop could cause the marbles to chip, but my 4" pvc tube doesn't seem to be generating enough force.