Black Powder Thread #1

[Mumbles]

Well it depends. There is a point where it doesn't matter. However if you go past this point it actually makes it worse. It causes the KNO3 to leach out, and thus decreases preformance. I would suggest reballmilling it for a little while just to be safe.

[Mardec]

Crap there goes 200 gram of potentially good pulverone

 

http://geocities.com/mini_bielecki/moistseiveextract.jpg

 

It is a little bit like this.

 

After it is dry I will test it with my loyal 2" dummy. If 11 grams doesn't do the trick I will remill.

 

First my crappy charcoal and now this shit, god my pyro skills are going down

[Mumbles]

Oh yeah, that is way too wet. It shou;dn't come out in strands like that. Try to get granules. I always get some sticking to the screen, but not to the point it comes off like spaghetti.

[itwasntme]

Crap there goes 200 gram of potentially good pulverone

 

http://geocities.com/mini_bielecki/moistseiveextract.jpg

 

It is a little bit like this.

 

After it is dry I will test it with my loyal 2" dummy. If 11 grams doesn't do the trick I will remill.

 

First my crappy charcoal and now this shit, god my pyro skills are going down

It's not lost. You could just wait until it dries then regrind it back into meal and start over. I don't know what will happen to the dextrin, maybe someone else could help?

[styropyro]

Once its ground back up into meal powder, and you are going to turn it into pulverone, there will be no need to add any more dextrin, because it is already in there. So the dextrin dosent go anywhere, it's just getting milled with the other ingredients

[mr.pyro]

IIRC About 5-6% water by weight should work to wet your powders for granulation purposes. Make sure its mixes in real well.

[Chemguy]

guys, BP isn't my most experienced part of pyrotechnics, I have been making small amounts recently perfecting my recipie but I am having trouble making it good enough. I am following the ratio 75:15:10, using fine KNO3 C and S. But it turns out grey. It burns quite slow, not with a poof at all, Quite a bright big flame though. The C I am using is from timber but I will be using balsa wood as soon as I get some, will that make my BP better How do you make it so black?. I need to get it better at least for guy fawkes. Thanks.

[_Po_]

Using dense charcoal means there isn't as much as C as a light charcoal. Freshly milled BP seems to be a lighter colour than stuff which has been sitting for a few weeks or months.

[Chemguy]

Does BP have a faster burn rate after after it has been left for a few weeks?

[Mumbles]

It shouldn't. If you wet mill it, it should get better a little bit. But overall it should not get better after sitting. The KNO3 absorbing water would make it worse if anything.

[maximusg]

Yeah, if too wet, the KNO3 will recrystalise into larger particles and reduce quality. Screening lift takes a few times to get right, I know when i first did it back in the day it took me two or three goes to get it go.

 

The best advice is to add the water slowly...

[whitewolf_573]

Is safe to ball mill a metal in the mill ? (Al and Fe is what i want to mill ).

 

The particle size is about a few mm , how many time should be milled to have a 120 mesh ?

 

In a sieve ( of kitchen) , as more holes have , and more small , a hight mesh is no ?

 

I can't find a meshed screen yet , so i want to use some kitchen sieves of diferent hole sizes .

 

For lift , sieve and other things that require use a sieve , what is the common mesh used ?(to make lifting charge , or to make a fastest powder)

 

In composition when say 120 mesh of Al , if you use 80 for example , it could be some different the effect , or just doesn't work ?( Is because i am preparing some fountains and a wheel for halloween , and i am now watching some compositions ... )

[rocket]

You can mill metals, use just need to use steel media instead of lead. Also with Al and Mg you have to be careful the metals can go pyrophoric (sp), this means when you open the milling jar after a day of milling it may ignite, to stop this from happening all you have to do is open the jar ever couple of hours.

 

If you use 80mesh in a comp that calls for 120mesh it will make a difference and may ever to work.

 

Also you really need to work on your English its hard to make out in places.

[Mardec]

Hey hey

 

I just fired a dummy with my BP that was to whet, I didn't lacked in lifting capabilities at all

 

Anyway I fired a 2" dummy of 100 grams out of a 50 cm long (19 and 1/4 ") tube. With 12 grams of BP I got a good lift.

 

Now I need to calculate how much I need for my 3" shells?

 

They whey about 130 grams (ball) and the other ones I still have to wheigh.

 

How much BP do I need to fire these to a good height with a 20" long tube.

 

I was thinking about 20 grams but some say it is to much, others say it is to less.. I would prefer a guideline of you all. Throw in personel experiences whatever could help me.

 

Thank you

[Mumbles]

I use 1/10th the weight of a shell in my home made lift, and the standard 1/16th with commercial. Well, usually I use 1/15 for easier calculations, but you get the point. I would say start with about 15g of lift on some dummy 3".

 

Here is something a lot of new people don't seem to grasp. Lift is not a standard or constant thing. You use more in some shells and less in others. The mass of lift depends much more heavily on the delay you add than the weight of the shell. Make a dummy shell, shoot it, and assuming it gets to a safe height, use that timing, the shell will burst right when it is at it's apex, which will make it preform at it's best for most shells.

[Cherbanov]

why all this work with making granulades? i just take my BP 14H milled.

then add the dexrin about 3%, then i spray a little water on it and shake the BP, after that i just sieve out the granulades that have being made by just shaking the mixture. It will be mutch small nice perfectly round granulades, that i use for liftcharges and brake, no mess and you don´t risk to over wet it if you just spray two times and then sieve it. Works great for me

[joe609]

Thats fine if it works for you but pressing does greatly increase the power of your black powder which is why so many people do it.

 

Edit: oh sorry your on about granules not pressing didnt read it properly

[Cherbanov]

yes pressing is better.

 

but some forces the BP in a wet state, true a sieve and i dont understand why they do it.

[Mumbles]

There are 3 things wrong with that.

 

#1 You will have very soft easily crushed granules due to the dextrin not being fully activated.

 

#2 You will have an obscene amount of powder left over.

 

#3 You don't always want small granules.

 

 

In addition to those, wetting your BP speeds it up, an advantage you're not getting.

[Cherbanov]

1. the granulades are quite hard the will not brake in my fingers if i rubb them

 

2. I just press the powder that is left. Out of 700gram i will have about

200g that are powder

 

 

3. the mesh thats are made are the same as wet pressing it true a sieve, i sieve out the mesh size.

 

 

 

ok i now understand why some are using the wet comp.

I´m not a pro at this i just found it out to day.

 

thanks fore the respond every one

[Cherbanov]

I was testing some of my new BP meal, and it is really powerfull. i just used 3grams of the meal at a 2" starmine with white star. it went of to hard so the stars dident egnite. why is my meal powder more powerfull than my pressed pucks made of the same powder? shouldent the pucks be more fowerfull?? or is the dextrin I use bad for BP, I use about 3% dextrin. I am using very little water when i press the pucks is that the problem maby?

[styropyro]

Maybe you just didn't prime your stars enough. I have the same problem if I don't prime my stars well. Just add a 2 or three part prime instead where the outside is meal, the middle layer of priming is 50/50 meal powder/ star compisition and the inside is the star compisiton. But you have to roll your stars or tumble them in the compisition if you are going to double or triple prime your stars.

 

But if that isn't the problem maybe you aren't breaking up the pucks enough. Remember if it is finer it is going to be better for shooting small things like a 2" starmine. ~10 mesh black powder works best for my 2" shells. But 3% dextrin shouldn't hurt your black powder at all.

[justanotherpyro]

I know that the general consensus is that pressing into pucks makes better BP. For some people its trivial and doesn't seem to help much. Whether or not it is poor method or whatnot, if you can get good results without pressing then don't worry about pressing it.

[Mephistos Minion]

I just cooked up some balsa charcoal in the back yard. I probbably have a whole 5g of it

 

I will make some more then turn it into BP (I probbably have enough balsa wood saved up at my property to make 150g of charcoal)

 

It only took about 20 minutes to fully cook, but it is all in thinish (1/8") sheets, so that could be it.

 

EDIT: Found my scales, got 5.9g I should have weighed it before cooking to see how much weight it looses, so that I can estimate how much wood I need to make 150g charcoal.

[itwasntme]

Isn't grape vine supposed to be good charcoal? I made some and used it for some coffee grinder black powder(yeah, I know dangerous.) and it was quite slow, my poplar bp kicked ass though. In a larger ammount, it was good, burning 2 seconds long. My poplar bp burns with a long and bright flash in like 1/8th teaspoon ammounts. Could it be because it's wet? I didn't let it dry, just cut it and put it into my retort and fired it up.

 

I've been looking at some treehugger websites, and they said that willows drop lots of sticks and "kindling" around fall. Is this true? I want to go knock on someone's door and ask them for it, maybe give them $5 for it.

If anyone wants some grape vine, I'd be happy to sell it to you. PM me with a price per 100grams.