Dragons eggs loudness - less loud when included in matrices?

[AdmiralDonSnider]

(Offtopic: is there still a way to use subtitles in topic titles?)

 

In my latest comet trials I experienced the strange behavior that dragons eggs which were extremely loud when burnt in a heap of (unconsolidated) matrix composition on the ground, were much less loud when displayed in a comet of the same consolidated composition in the air, when viewed from close distance.

Why is this?

Is there a chance that the eggs tend to burn in single large reactions consuming the whole mass on the ground, while they burn in many and less loud increments in the air?

 

Has anyone else had the problem and by what means is this overcome? Thank you!

Edited January 5, 2013 by AdmiralDonSnider

[BJV]

(Offtopic: is there still a way to use subtitles in topic titles?)

 

In my latest comet trials I experienced the strange behavior that dragons eggs which were extremely loud when burnt in a heap of (unconsolidated) matrix composition on the ground, were much less loud when displayed in a comet of the same consolidated composition in the air, when viewed from close distance.

Why is this?

Is there a chance that the eggs tend to burn in single large reactions consuming the whole mass on the ground, while they burn in many and less loud increments in the air?

 

Has anyone else had the problem and by what means is this overcome? Thank you!

AdmiralDonSnider what is the matrix composition? Is it bound with dextrin/water?

I have found if I coat the dragon eggs with wax before adding to the matrix composition I have

better luck. I put the dragon eggs into a double boiler, then add shaved wax until the eggs are

coated.

BJV

[AdmiralDonSnider]

The matrices were a charcoal streamer given by Hardt and a hotter MgAl containing mix. The burn temp doesn´t seem to be the problem. I even tried Hardts Dragon Egg Matrix which is INTENDED to be used with eggs.

 

All of which were water/dextrin bound, but I thought that should not be a problem with NC bound eggs. They do not seem to desintegrate in any way.

 

So you are having a similar problem? Could you explain it? What exactly do you mean by saying better luck with the wax technique? Have you ever tried using an egg prime instead? Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[BJV]

The matrices were a charcoal streamer given by Hardt and a hotter MgAl containing mix. The burn temp doesn´t seem to be the problem. I even tried Hardts Dragon Egg Matrix which is INTENDED to be used with eggs.

 

All of which were water/dextrin bound, but I thought that should not be a problem with NC bound eggs. They do not seem to desintegrate in any way.

 

So you are having a similar problem? Could you explain it? What exactly do you mean by saying better luck with the wax technique? Have you ever tried using an egg prime instead? Thanks for sharing your experiences!

All of my dragon eggs are bound with NC. I have just found when I seal the dragon eggs with wax I get very little nitrate

soaking into the dragon eggs and killing the effect.

BJV

[AdmiralDonSnider]

So you are as well noticing the effect I described in consolidated comps?

 

NC is expected to be a water-seal, so there should not be any nitrate solution in water soaking into the egg - theoretically.

 

That is very interesting indeed.

[BJV]

So you are as well noticing the effect I described in consolidated comps?

 

NC is expected to be a water-seal, so there should not be any nitrate solution in water soaking into the egg - theoretically.

 

That is very interesting indeed.

Yes I have seen a notable difference when I use the wax coating. NC I thought would seal the eggs, but it is not doing the

job at least for me.

Here is a video with dragon eggs coated with wax. This video was taken quit some distance away. But I think you can still hear the

eggs in the first couple of shells.

BJV

[AdmiralDonSnider]

They sound quite good. Mine sound more like coarse MgAl even in closely shot comets. They are very loud on the ground when burned in heaps of comp though. Seems I have to try the method.

 

Your shells are quite attractive, btw.

[Mumbles]

You'd think that NC should be a good water seal, but it doesn't seem to totally do the trick with dragon eggs. It seems that the final result is still too porous. I know a lot of people who have to coat their dragon eggs in wax or another coating. Some use outdoor wood sealant as well. I'd imagine some sort of barrier prime would work too. I think I'd still prefer something like wax for long term stability.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Very interesting. Never heard about that.

 

I´ve never noted how much NC I use to consolidate the eggs (and some say it is vital for the effect, some say it´s not) - but do you think using plenty of NC binder would eliminate the issue and provide a better seal?

 

Wood sealant actually often seems to be NC lacquer. So using a final coating of NC on the dried eggs may help too.

[BJV]

Very interesting. Never heard about that.

 

I´ve never noted how much NC I use to consolidate the eggs (and some say it is vital for the effect, some say it´s not) - but do you think using plenty of NC binder would eliminate the issue and provide a better seal?

 

Wood sealant actually often seems to be NC lacquer. So using a final coating of NC on the dried eggs may help too.

I have also use thompson water seal. It also seem to work very well. Just soak the dragon eggs and let them dry for a day or so.

BJV

[dan999ification]

my recent batches of matrix stars had similar results, the base comp was c6+25 bp the eggs were made with screen method 16#, nc bound ( 10 percent )

To me the screen/sieve produced eggs can be porous as mum said, on pumping the stars water is forced into the structure and ruins the effect, somehow? They were pumped with about 12 percent water.

The few pumped stars i tested were loud on the ground but in the air dissapointing, i dont know whether it was the distance but something happened.

The not so interesting thing is that the same batch of eggs performed as expected with the same base comp only nearly 40 percent water was used to make cut stars, i guess now that less if any water was forced into the cut batch even though more was present, these performed brilliantly and were plenty loud 400ft up.

 

Question is why did the pumped batch perform well on the ground and not well in the air, primed or unprimed they still light for me at this size quite reliably.

 

The only reasonable explanation i have for the pumped matrix comets not working in the air is that the eggs left the comet smouldering evenly but were cooled rapidly ( that night ) slowing or stopping the reaction.

On the ground and stationary the same stars dont seem to suffer.

My base comp dumps the eggs very quickly, perhaps if the comet held on to the eggs until just before they pop they would cool less and bang more, who knows.

 

My cut eggs dont suffer these problems, they seem to be harder, less porous but are a pita to make a largish batch consistantly sized.

I have considered wax coating the eggs for pumped matrix stars to prevent the water creeping in but still have to work with other base comps, how does the wax affect bp base comps? Im sure it would solve this issue just have to test and adjust the burn speed of the base comp.

 

Dan.

 

 

[mabuse00]

When I tested DEs with the lead/copper formula from Best AFN3 70/17,5/12,5 +5 45µm Al and 200µm magnalium in the summer, I found that loose eggs in a rocket header work well with pinball prime, even when flying through the air.

 

The pinball prime (doped with Si and MgAl) was mowital bound with alcohol and dusted with greenmix afterwards.

 

Integrated in a plaster torch calcium sulfate/atomised Al the they created lots of small crackles and no real distinct reports. But the eggs where not primed here as I supposed the torch to be hot enough.

 

I did not make more tests yet but I think the problem might be that the eggs are not lit evenly.

In the very slow but also very hot burning paster torch this is very extreme. The first corner is heated and the others are still deeply buried in the unburned matrix composition. So they explode step by step with the matrix burning down.

 

A FAST burning prime that - apart from just being the prime - blasts the eggs out of the matrix like a gogetter and instantly catches fire all around the egg might be the solution.

 

So not like BP+Si but rather some flashpowder-like composition.

[BengalFlair]

All of my dragon eggs are bound with NC. I have just found when I seal the dragon eggs with wax I get very little nitrate

soaking into the dragon eggs and killing the effect.

BJV

 

I soaked some of my screen sliced dragon eggs (lead/copper) overnight in 35% aqueous solution of potassium nitrate. I also added a little alcohol to that solution. Then I shifted the granules from the solution and dried thoroughly. Tested them priming with green mix +5% MgAl and surprisingly noticed no significant difference in loudness between soaked and unsoaked granules. So it is hard to believe that the ruin of effect is due to nitrate leaching to the granules and there must be some other reason of improvement in loudness for those wax coated granules IMHO.

I have seen from my experience that a particular delay is required to get in to the smolder phase of the whole granule and for louder pops as well. Less than that delay it tends to low multi pops and the delay depends on various factors of the composition, making technique, and use etc.Partial ignitions also ruin the effect as uniform ignition over the entire surface of the granules is a part to getting it loud.

So wax coating might be met the requirements of that ideal condition to getting it loud but we’d have to test it very carefully to find out the specific reason.

Edited January 11, 2013 by BengalFlair