Chrysanthemum of Mystery

[pyrowinner]

Chrysanthemum of Mystery

 

For best effect to obtain by the potassium nitrate must be soaked into the charcoal. Hence a wet process must be used for mixing.

 

Composition

Potassium nitrate 45

Charcoal (Pine airfloat) 50

SGRS or dextrin 5

********

Now my questions are as bellows.

1) If potassium nitrate must be soaked into the charcoal then what are the ratios of water & composition?

2) Which wet process must be used for mixing?

3) For the best result can I Roll, pump, press or cut the stars. (Now I damp the Composition with water & pump the stars)

4) Can I use 75/25 ratio of W/A in stars? (Now I avoided using alcohol with water for long tail effect but its brightness is less)

5) same process used to another Chrysanthemum, TT or charcoal based stars?

6) Ball Mill Method is necessary for above composition?

So if anybody knows the wet process of ‘’Chrysanthemum of Mystery’ then please explain here in details.

pyrowinner

Edited October 29, 2012 by pyrowinner

[BengalFlair]

There are various wet processes but my process is safe and works great for me.

I usually grind the potassium nitrate and charcoal separately as fine as possible and mix them well by sieving without the binder (dextrin or sgrs).Then I pour patiently some boiling water little at time and kneed it to make thick slurry and place it in a flat tray. After some time it starts to get thicker due to evaporation of water then I kneed it occasionally and wait for a few hours to get the right consistency for granulation. In the right consistency I make a stiff ball of the composition with the pressure of my both palms and rub it through a 4 mesh screen to granulate it and collect on a non absorbent sheet like polythene. Then I spread the granules thinly and keep it in a shady and safe place for drying. It takes a few days to dry completely and depends on weather. After drying I mix the required binder to it and ball mill it for an hour or two to get the final composition.

I follow the same process to another Chrysanthemum, TT or charcoals based stars and add metals after final ball milling if required. I don’t have press so I like to roll or pump as cut stars require a bit more water so longer the drying time and may suffer to driven-in problem .I think the rolled and pumped stars also are denser and robust then cut stars.

I think that the ball mill method is must to achieve the optimum performance of the composition.

The alcohol helps the charcoal to absorb the water by reducing its surface tension to speed up the wetting process and the drying time of the composition is also reduced, as alcohol evaporates faster than water. But excessive alcohol affects the activation of dextrin and especially sgrs so I usually use 10% alcohol to just reduce the surface tension of water.

“Chrysanthemum of Mystery” is not so bright but it has an elegant effect which I like very much.

[pyrowinner]

First of all thanks for your precious opinion on above subject!!!! But I used coarse of charcoal’s (80-150 mesh charcoals mixed with the Airfloat charcoals 50/50% & avoided to ball-mill it because of reducing its burn rate for long lasting rising tails effect) after I dissolve KNO3 & Dextrin in boiling water (without Alcohol) & then slowly add charcoals in that KNO3 mixed water.

It’s my own wet process for charcoals stars, I achieved the long lasting rising tails effect from them & tails of charcoal particles glows in the sky more than 12 to15 seconds, some glows particles touched the ground also but its intensity of brightness wasn’t satisfy me, if I used 25/75 alcohol with water then only its intensity was better but that time I lost the star's long lasting rising tails effect, I know the reason that alcohol reducing water’s surface tension & charcoal absorb more KNO3 water inside it, so KNO3 provide internally & more oxygen for charcoals & glow brightly but coast of cut its rising tails effect. On the other hand only water based star’s charcoal particles take some oxygen from the air after bursting & spread in the sky with the long lasting rising tails effect, after all I’m sure about your process to achieve the both effects at the same time because as per your process using only 10% alcohol, I think which solve my problem.

 

I'll try

 

Thanks BengalFlair & Thanks to APC discussion forums plot.

 

(wait for more opinion on this subject)

Edited November 1, 2012 by pyrowinner

[pyrowinner]

I achieved the optimum performance of the composition, effect to increase the intensity of brightness with only 10% alcohol using & also follow your wet process (avoided to ball-mill but granules pressed & sieving in 50 mesh & then mix the dextrin for damp again) after all Thanks BengalFlair. Edited November 20, 2012 by pyrowinner

[Maximus]

I don’t have press so I like to roll or pump as cut stars require a bit more water so longer the drying time and may suffer to driven-in problem .I think the rolled and pumped stars also are denser and robust then cut stars.

What awesome timing! I have a related question and am reluctant to start a new topic with my newness and all. I do have access to a press and a nice homemade star plate. For these types of stars; C6, C8, TT, CofM, Willow.....is pressing ideal if you have access to the tools? I'm especially curious on Willow or other slow buring comps. Intuition would indicate that a more dense star (pressed) would burn longer. In the case of Willow stars a longer than expected burn duration could put lit stars on the ground.

Just curoius. Great topic and information here, guys! Thanks!

[BengalFlair]

I think there is no problem of pressing with these stars. Burn rate of a composition depends on various factors but required burn rate of these stars can be achieved with trial and error by simply varying the star size and milling time.

[Zumber]

first take about 30% of warm water and 10% of alcohol and dissolve amount of binder in it then add some oxidizer in it then add same amount of fuel and form paste by continuously stirring.

repeat the process, add warm water if needed and adjust the viscosity.

dry it for 2 days pass it through fine mesh screen then dry again and make powder with rolling pin and paper sheet.

I think it?s much difficult to get ball mill in india,I too live in india.

don?t inheal alcohol fumes while working.

[pyrowinner]

Thanks swapnil for your opinion. Our wet process is very close except of alcohol’s ratio, but I surprised to see that dissolving the binder first in warm water/alcohol, but as per my Experiences & knowledge alcohol kill some effect of binding (especially with dextrin),then why dissolving the binder first ? Have you any special reason for it? Then you’re welcome to improve my knowledge, after all our experiences make us perfect.

Edited November 28, 2012 by pyrowinner

[BengalFlair]

first take about 30% of warm water and 10% of alcohol and dissolve amount of binder in it then add some oxidizer in it then add same amount of fuel and form paste by continuously stirring.

repeat the process, add warm water if needed and adjust the viscosity.

dry it for 2 days pass it through fine mesh screen then dry again and make powder with rolling pin and paper sheet.

I think it?s much difficult to get ball mill in india,I too live in india.

don?t inheal alcohol fumes while working.

 

 

I think it is not too wise to use binder first as it does not make any improvement of the composition but makes the granules harder to grind. From my experience I would say, no alcohol is required if boiling water is used because boiling also lowers the surface tension of water and helps to dissolve more kno3, thereby allowing the solution to enter more of the charcoal's pores. I just use 5- 10% alcohol during cutting or pumping.

 

It is ambiguous to my knowledge and experience that how it is possible to pass the paste through a “fine mesh” (?? 100 or higher mesh??) after drying it during 2days with binder.

 

All required materials are available here for a ball mill so “There is a will there is a way”.

Edited November 29, 2012 by BengalFlair

[Zumber]

@pyrowinner-with reference to 'fireworks,art sscience and technic' book by takeo shimizu,shimizu said dissolve binder first in his article' wet mixing process',i used to add only 10% alcohol because alcohol helps soaking KNO3 into charcoal fastly thereby reducing drying time.

as far as alcohol ratio concerned remaing 15%alcohol can be added during rolling or pumping the stars.

this method works great for me.

 

@pyrowinner-with reference to 'fireworks,art sscience and technic' book by takeo shimizu,shimizu said dissolve binder first in his article' wet mixing process',i used to add only 10% alcohol because alcohol helps soaking KNO3 into charcoal fastly thereby reducing drying time.

as far as alcohol ratio concerned remaing 15%alcohol can be added during rolling or pumping the stars.

this method works great for me.

[BengalFlair]

@pyrowinner-with reference to 'fireworks,art sscience and technic' book by takeo shimizu,shimizu said dissolve binder first in his article' wet mixing process',i used to add only 10% alcohol because alcohol helps soaking KNO3 into charcoal fastly thereby reducing drying time.

as far as alcohol ratio concerned remaing 15%alcohol can be added during rolling or pumping the stars.

this method works great for me.

 

 

Shimizu stated nowhere in “Wet process for mixing materials” that it is used for relatively insensitive composition like charcoal fire dust. He very clearly stated that the process is used for quite sensitive compositions such as cracker balls (the composition consists of realgar and potassium chlorate), paper caps (red phosphorus, sulphur and potassium chlorate) and pull-igniters (red phosphorus, antimony trisulphide and potassium chlorate). He also clarified that water is added to suppress the explosive nature of the composition and gelatin like binder in the slurry helps to prevent the chemicals from sedimentation, but some compositions are manufactured without such a binder.

 

So it is clear that the requirement of wet process for charcoal fire dust and sensitive composition are different and should not be confused.

[pyrowinner]

@swapnil, if you indicate the article on page No: - 181 “Wet process for mixing materials’’ from Takeo shimizu’s book ‘fireworks, art science and technique’ then that wet process are only For quite sensitive compositions like a potassium chlorate with red phosphorus, realgar & other sulphur or sulfate components, as you know the above compositions are very explosive & danger to dry mixing, as per his article he indicated using binding material first in wet process.

which are not applicable in charcoal’s fire dust compositions.

Here I agree with BengalFlair’s proper reason, and I achieved the optimum performance of the composition with follow his wet process method,

After all thanks swapnil, our wet process are so close except of binder period,alcohol’s ratio & other minor different, but I frankly tell that you’re confused in above matter, But I like healthy discussions here in APC Forum.

Also Thanks to BengalFlair.

Edited November 30, 2012 by pyrowinner