bob Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I do know people who can get very hot meal in 60-90 minutes. I believe this starts with relatively fine materials. This was with extremely efficient ball mills. When you start with really hot charcoal, it really doesn't take all that much to get something to commercial quality if not higher. There is another option to use your 1Fg and cannon powder without the need to crush it. Cylindrical shells are broken with granular powders instead of meal coated on rice hulls normally. how important is it to use granulated instead of coated onto rice hulls in canister shells?
Mumbles Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Both will work actually. I'm more comfortable using granular BP as I feel that it gives a more solid shell. I've used burst coated on rice hulls. A few other prominent builders do too. One even makes large multi-break shells. There is a discussion going on on passfire at the moment about this. I believe he said that coated rice hulls give a slightly weaker burst, which would make sense as there is less bursting composition per mass with coated hulls.
Algenco Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Both will work actually. I'm more comfortable using granular BP as I feel that it gives a more solid shell. I've used burst coated on rice hulls. A few other prominent builders do too. One even makes large multi-break shells. There is a discussion going on on passfire at the moment about this. I believe he said that coated rice hulls give a slightly weaker burst, which would make sense as there is less bursting composition per mass with coated hulls. that's also dependent on how much the hulls are coated, 10/1 would compress less than 5/1Hot charcoal makes for hard burstA lot of Master shell builder are using rice hulls, with the right charcoal I even got a Grand Master to stop using boosters For people like me with arthritis in both hands coated rice hulls are much easier to produce than granulated powder.That said, I still use both, granulated for 4" and smaller, coated hulls for larger shells, I could use the hulls in small sshells with a booster, but I prefer not Edited October 5, 2012 by Algenco
dan999ification Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 i dont mill the dextrin in either, the powder should be grey if black it is not milled enough.I can turn out bp in an hour with very fine chems but there is some gritty residue suggesting it is not yet completely milled even with nitrate the size of salt it only takes three hours on a lower than normal rpm, the burn rate is comparable but it does burn more completely after 3 hours meaning that it will be more powerfull and less needed.Mike you can improvise a mill form an old printer, not ideal for many reasons but mine has lasted three years, short runs, cool off periods, small batches but better than nothing, you can run it on a car battery in a remote location which is a must if the little motor decides to go, from what ive seen it is better than the harbour freight jobbies in milling time, batch size is about the same, 100g, ok to start with but you'll get hungry eventually and will justify the costs of good ( correct ) equipment. Dan.
dagabu Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I was building all of my cylinders with 2FA then I went to hand granulated BP and saw no difference at all but when I tried couple dozen shells with coated rice hulls, I found some compression issues with non stacked inserts like times reports. I personally don't like the embers with cylinder shells but really don't mind them with a lot of ball shells. I use only coated rice hulls in ball shells, no exceptions and have to boost them. I have had to boost cylinders as well, mostly to get big breaks but with the new charcoal I got at PGI (thanks Old Fart) I am hoping that my boosting days are over. I will be taking Al's advice from above and try 10:1 ricehulls with his charcoal and no booster with the hope that I have found the answer to the issue. -dag
ChloRure Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I was building all of my cylinders with 2FA then I went to hand granulated BP and saw no difference at all but when I tried couple dozen shells with coated rice hulls, I found some compression issues with non stacked inserts like times reports. I personally don't like the embers with cylinder shells but really don't mind them with a lot of ball shells. I use only coated rice hulls in ball shells, no exceptions and have to boost them. I have had to boost cylinders as well, mostly to get big breaks but with the new charcoal I got at PGI (thanks Old Fart) I am hoping that my boosting days are over. I will be taking Al's advice from above and try 10:1 ricehulls with his charcoal and no booster with the hope that I have found the answer to the issue. -dag I never really put any booster in my small shell... 2", 3"... rice hulls coated and seem to work goood, but I if want a larger break, how many booster people use in those size ? And I guess slow flash (kno3/al/s) should work ? Thanks
dynomike1 Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 I guess i've done it this time. I did'nt have anything to do today after we pumped stars yesterday so i've been reading these threads and i decided to make some black powder did'nt have a ball mill so i figured if it did'nt work i could store it till i get a ball mill. I mixed it shook it screened it through 20 mesh then did it again. I think i had some Potasium Natriate left on the screen so i dumped it back in the comp. Well it worked but it was kinda hard to lite and it seemed to burn slower than 1Fg. Any thoughts?
eb11 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) dynomike i ordered this ballmill from harbor tools for $50.00before i forget the clumping i got the first time i ran this mill was from a coating in the mill once that was cleaned out from my first run i have not had that problem again. Edited October 9, 2012 by eb11
bob Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 I guess i've done it this time. I did'nt have anything to do today after we pumped stars yesterday so i've been reading these threads and i decided to make some black powder did'nt have a ball mill so i figured if it did'nt work i could store it till i get a ball mill. I mixed it shook it screened it through 20 mesh then did it again. I think i had some Potasium Natriate left on the screen so i dumped it back in the comp. Well it worked but it was kinda hard to lite and it seemed to burn slower than 1Fg. Any thoughts? that's how green mix burns (which is what you made)bob
dynomike1 Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Is that going to be acceptable for lift an burst? If i mix with rice hulls how much would i need to lift a 3" shell? I would have to pay tax at harbor, If what i made is right i shouldn't need one for that. I realize that there are going to be times that i cant get around not having one, maybe it will quit raining where i can make some money then i can get one.
dan999ification Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 you can not lift small shells with un milled powder nor can you burst them respectably, look for videos of fast lift you will see the difference in your green mix, it does not have to be the best but it cant be green mix bpi have some footage of border line pestle and mortar bp on seed ( which need good pasting ) and fast meal powder good for lift ( then )just cant upload by phone. Dan.
Algenco Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Is that going to be acceptable for lift an burst? If i mix with rice hulls how much would i need to lift a 3" shell? I would have to pay tax at harbor, If what i made is right i shouldn't need one for that. I realize that there are going to be times that i cant get around not having one, maybe it will quit raining where i can make some money then i can get one. you might get by using it for lift, but it would take a lot more, burst will be disappointing
Algenco Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 So what i need to do is mill what i made. yep
bob Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Is that going to be acceptable for lift an burst? If i mix with rice hulls how much would i need to lift a 3" shell? I would have to pay tax at harbor, If what i made is right i shouldn't need one for that. I realize that there are going to be times that i cant get around not having one, maybe it will quit raining where i can make some money then i can get one. sorry I guess I didn't make my self clear. green mix will not work for most things, it can work for lift I have done it but it doesn't take long to make getting or making a ball mill cheaper cause you use WAY more to get any power so your eating up more chems, if you do want to lift some thing with green mix you have to get what ever it is your shooting really tight like have to put a lot of your weight on it to get it to go down and use a very long mortorso I think you really will need a ball millbut it seems to be burning normaly for what stage it is at nowbob
dynomike1 Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 I looked at Harbour Frieght EB cant seem to find one.
Col Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 The 3lb tumbler is on offer at $40, http://www.harborfreight.com/3-lb-rotary-rock-tumbler-67631.htmlIt might be worth paying an extra $10 for the dual drum, http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html
Algenco Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 The 3lb tumbler is on offer at $40, http://www.harborfre...bler-67631.htmlIt might be worth paying an extra $10 for the dual drum, http://www.harborfre...bler-67632.html if you use lead media it won't turn 2 drums
Col Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Its prolly worth paying the extra $10 just to get a spare jar
eb11 Posted October 11, 2012 Author Posted October 11, 2012 i got my media from skylighter got enough for one drum have the other as a spare
dynomike1 Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 I ordered mine form Pyro Direct had to go lead could'nt afford ceramic.
TheArchitect23 Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 if you use lead media it won't turn 2 drums not necessarily true.all of my mills run both drums, drop one on at a time.although i do use a thicker roller, and properly tensioned the belt.
TheArchitect23 Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 All i need now is media. Any sugestions? well you could buy lead media, but for the same cost you could get a lee production lead melting pot, a .50 cal bullet mold, and scrap free lead.leaving the amount of media you need unlimited, and you get a lead melter for sinkers or actual bullets. if neither apply as useful for you, just stick to buying the media. keep in mind they do wear out and you'll need to buy more at some point. or even when you get a larger mill you'll need alot more media. casting your own would be free, or much cheaper even if you bought the lead. molds will outlive us, and the lead pot will last years if taken care of.
dynomike1 Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Well i got my mill and made a batch BP 75G P.N 15G AFC 10G S 20G D and milled it for 26-28 hrs. This was supposed to be supper fast. I compared it to 2FG not even close i dont think it's fast enough for rice hulls or even by it self for lift or burst. I know yall are talking about different types of charcoal could this be the case? Luckily i have some 2FG i can mill. I guess i will start building my Star roller today, hopefully i'll start getting off on the week ends now.
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