black powder

[eb11]

i ran a 100 gram batch of black powder through my ball mill it consisted of 75grams pot nitrate 15 grams airfloat charcoal and 10 grams sulfer i ran it for 12hrs and stopped the mill i did not open the container for 8 hrs when i did the bp was clumped at the bottom of the container i ran it through a screen to make it fine. i lite some outside it worked as good as the 4f that i had bought is it normal for it to clump into a ball like that. sorry for the long windedness but just want to get all the info out

[dagabu]

Yes, if the ingredients are wet, it will always clump. It does not take a lot of moisture either, 10% is plenty. There is no reason to mill it for 24 hours unless you don't have good media inside the drum, lead and Zirc will grind in a few hours max, after that you are just destroying your media.

 

My 6" (1 gallon jars) jar filled halfway with 3/8" Zirconium media will start to get significantly louder after 45 minutes, signifying that the point of diminishing return has been reached.

 

I am glad that it burns fast, congratulations!

 

-dag

[eb11]

so what is a godd lenght of time or do i need to experiment also you can ball mill zinc? how about alluminum i bought some course stuff want to mill it down Edited October 3, 2012 by eb11

[dagabu]

Sure, you can ball mill Zinc but I found a blender to be faster. Ballmilling time depends on the type of ball mill you have and the media.

 

-dag

[Mumbles]

The amount of time that you need to mill your BP will depend on your mill itself, the media, and the starting materials. If you want to avoid clumping all together, you might want to pre-dry your materials. It's generally the nitrate or charcoal that has absorbed water. For me, the charcoal is more of a problem than the nitrate typically. Keeping it in a sealed bucket with a bag of desiccant will keep it nice and dry.

 

8-12hr is not unreasonable milling times if you're using a stock rock tumbler. For the more efficient designs, a few hours is usually quite sufficient.

[bob]

in my old 3 lbs ball mill I had to do 16 hour mill runs using lead media

in my new 6.5 L mill 90 mins is good using lead media

bob

[eb11]

this is what i have for a mill

[bob]

my'n is almost the same it's a three lbs though, has th same jar just can't put as much media in it so longer mill run

bob

[Col]

I dried an old batch of home cooked pine charcoal yesterday, 500g went in and 485g came out. I use a 160w electric crockpot (slow cooker) on the high setting for 90 mins.

 

I run the mill 60 minutes for blackmatch,rice hull burst etc and 90 minutes for everything else.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Col

[dynomike1]

All i have is 1f and cannon grade can you coat rice hulls with that or would it be benifical. I also dont have a ball mill.

[dan999ification]

if it is coated with graphite it wont be the best.

Nice idea on the slow cooker col i may try it, is that the actual dry weight or do you have a black kitchen today?, the clumping i get does not bother me at all provided that you dont run the mill with nothing milling, 3 hours is plenty shake the jar evry so often to break the clumps and its fine, im going to wet it anyway but dry ingredients will mill faster imho.

You need a mill mike the pestle and mortar will get old quickly but can make good bp if your up for it.

Ebb test the bp hourly and film it to compare the samples when the last two are looking the same stop milling, i brought mine down from eight hours to three like this and coulnt believe it.

 

Dan.

[eb11]

thanks dan i ran another batch last night and stopped it after 4hrs and did a burn test it was just as good as the 1 that i did for 16 hrs so 4hrs is good. 1 more question what color is your bp mine is coming out as a dark brown color. its not black like the 4f bp that i have from goex Edited October 4, 2012 by eb11

[Col]

Actual weight Dan, the crockpot lives in the shed, another pyro bargain from the local "Help the Heroes".

Eb, mne is usually a medium shade of grey.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Col

[eb11]

sorry just looked at mine it is light gray dont know why i said brown

[Col]

If its brown you overdid the dextrin

[dynomike1]

Thanks Dan I am trying not to spend anymore money till i get a shell in the air. So i can coat the rice hulls w/1f or leave them out? I am building my first shell from here Making Basic 3-Inch Plastic Ball Shells.. For some reason the only reason that i can see using rice hulls is to take up space, I may be wrong? I will start hauling beans next week, then i will have to put everything on hold but i can still study. Then comes rebuilding Duck Blind. After that i will have till 1 March to build shells. If every thing goes right i should have enough shells to have a fourth of July show at my house. Maybe in a couple of weeks i can buy a mill and make my own.

[dagabu]

No, you need to make powder out of the 1F in order to coat rice hulls.

 

-dag

[ChloRure]

I have a 3 lbs thumbler with a rubber drum filled with 200 cal50 lead balls. I always let it run 24 hours and once granulated it come pretty fast.

 

I was wondering if it change the time that I need to run it since the drum is rubber ? I think the rubber would absorb some "shock" and then mill slower ?

 

Oh and I always put 160grams in the mill.

[dagabu]

I have a 3 lbs thumbler with a rubber drum filled with 200 cal50 lead balls. I always let it run 24 hours and once granulated it come pretty fast.

 

I was wondering if it change the time that I need to run it since the drum is rubber ? I think the rubber would absorb some "shock" and then mill slower ?

 

Oh and I always put 160grams in the mill.

 

Not in an optimized ball mill, it would take virtually the same time since it is not the jar strikes that grind the powder but the cascading of the media. Rubber barrels have a lot of good qualities but I depend on the sound change in my PVC jars to tell me when the grinding is done.

 

-dag

[eb11]

col i dont use dextrin i use 75grams pot nitrate 15 carcoal and 10 sulfer i only use the meal

[dagabu]

col i dont use dextrin i use 75grams pot nitrate 15 carcoal and 10 sulfer i only use the meal

 

If you plan on coating rice hulls, you will need a binder, if you are pressing and pucking, no binder is needed, if granulating, you will probably need a binder.

 

-dag

[Col]

I was just kidding matey

ChloRure, i havent noticed any difference in milling time and performance between hard hdpe and rubber jars. If the rpm is right, you shouldnt get any shock..just a nice steady cascade of media.

[FrankRizzo]

Yes, if the ingredients are wet, it will always clump. It does not take a lot of moisture either, 10% is plenty. There is no reason to mill it for 24 hours unless you don't have good media inside the drum, lead and Zirc will grind in a few hours max, after that you are just destroying your media.

 

My 6" (1 gallon jars) jar filled halfway with 3/8" Zirconium media will start to get significantly louder after 45 minutes, signifying that the point of diminishing return has been reached.

 

I am glad that it burns fast, congratulations!

 

-dag

 

Wow. You're getting good meal powder with a 45min run?

[dagabu]

Wow. You're getting good meal powder with a 45min run?

 

There were lots of people at PGI doing batches in an hour with good media. I just listen for the sound change, when the jar becomes noticeable louder, I can't tell by rubbing it between my fingers how fine it is but when riced using Genes dextrin liquor method, it matches what I have for commercial 2FA.

 

I use it to coat rice hulls and get the same bursts as others too so it must be working ok. I have not put it to a real test honestly, I would have to shoot a dongle to be sure.

 

-dag

[Mumbles]

I do know people who can get very hot meal in 60-90 minutes. I believe this starts with relatively fine materials. This was with extremely efficient ball mills. When you start with really hot charcoal, it really doesn't take all that much to get something to commercial quality if not higher.

 

There is another option to use your 1Fg and cannon powder without the need to crush it. Cylindrical shells are broken with granular powders instead of meal coated on rice hulls normally.