xBangergoosEx Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Way back in time, when the Chinese first "invented" black powder and the first fireworks were made, how did they produce black powder suitable enough for devices such as shells and rockets? I know that obviously aerial shells werent made for some time after the discovery of black powder. Does anyone know of the first methods for producing black powder?
bob Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 pedestal and mortarI thinkbut I have no evidence to prove that
pyrokid Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 This video gives a little bit of insight into wheel mill production. Obviously this video was shot at an american location but it still gives you an idea of a different means of milling. I have read of the chinese using a sort of precipitation method, where they would pour their hot black powder soup onto cold marble slabs. I think the mortar and pestle was used quite extensively as well.
Mortartube Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I am reliably informed that they use marble slabs for BP production in China. I have made rudimentary rockets many years ago with unmilled and even badly mixed powder with clumps of sulphur in the mix. It worked. They probably wouldn't lift a lot, but show that a motor can be made to fly with no milling and fairly fine sieved ingredients. The earliest rockets probably didn't have a header and were for scaring the enemy because of their unusual nature more than destructive.
dagabu Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 hi,maybe CIA methode Absolutely not, the CIA method is a very new method, less than 100 years old. It is also the most wasteful and inefficient method there is. The first was definitely the mortar and pestle method but probably was a rocket with a bowl shaped indent and a rock with a curve. As mortartube mentioned, even poorly made BP will burn in confinement. According to the Chinese, the ability to make good BP with crude hand tools was achieved in just a few decades after all three components were identified. Being able to confine it enough to make a useable explosive was another matter altogether. -dag
Mumbles Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 The sources and opinions vary on the origin of blackpowder, but it was almost certainly made in a mortar and pestle. Some say China, some say among the arabic region, some will say Francis Bacon or Berthold Schwarz. There is much written about the history and development of blackpowder. There is a lot of information available on the internet as well. It's an interesting read if you ever care to comb through it, and see about making your own interpretations.
bob Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) A History of Firearms is a REALLY good book by W. Y. Carman.It's one of the best books I've ever read>He really knows his stuff!bobps glad to see you got your avaiter back mumbles Edited October 2, 2012 by bob
dagabu Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 The sources and opinions vary on the origin of blackpowder, but it was almost certainly made in a mortar and pestle. Some say China, some say among the arabic region, some will say Francis Bacon or Berthold Schwarz. There is much written about the history and development of blackpowder. There is a lot of information available on the internet as well. It's an interesting read if you ever care to comb through it, and see about making your own interpretations. My favorite two books on the subject are: A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder by J. R. Partington The Asian Military Revolution by Peter A Lorge Only a few fringe histories disagree with the assumptions they make, both are fascinating reads and are well worth the money. -dag
dan999ification Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 i have seen some videos on fuse, the bp was over wet like a charcoal star comp then heated in a large flat pan until evaporation starts, the residual heat helps speed up drying, then wheel milled, re wet, granulated.Messy dangerous and low tech, but should make good bp since the oxidiser is well soaked in.The evolution of bp as mum says has a few different claims.Ive seen pictures of a few men working giant pestles which is most likely the start of it but there is more than one way to skin a cat depending where you come from it will vary to what you have.Wooden barrels and wooden balls have been in use for centurys, water driven like most early mills. Dan.
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