THEHODSONATOR Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I've been playing with basic BP formulae for a while now and am comfortable moving on to flash powders now. however, being cheap, Im looking to improvise and substitute with chemicals i have on hand. First of many questions to come is : Can i substitute potassium nitrate for potassium perchlorate in a German dark aluminum flash powder?. will i need to change the ratios? how will it affect the resulting explosion? Thanks.
taiwanluthiers Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Pyros generally discourage the use of flash for beginners. The question is, what is your goal? Do you just want to make something that blows up or are you interested in a stronger shell burst? I am a bit afraid of giving out flash formulas esp. to a newbie because I really don't want to be encouraging boomers. The next thing you should be experimenting with is making stars or fountains. D1 glitter is a good starter. 1
RealmMaster Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) I've been playing with basic BP formulae for a while now and am comfortable moving on to flash powders now Kind of a BIG leap don't you think?.. That's like saying I've been riding in a plane a few times, Now I want to pilot it... You said something that bothers me in providing a answer to your post and that is how will it affect the resulting explosion? Sounds to me you are seeking just to blow something up and not seeking a actual valid use of flash, as there are some reasons that flash is needed. Why not move on to something like creating some beautiful stars, smokes... Be an artist and gain experience in painting the sky showing others the true beauty of pyrotechnics, At least that way your friends can have joy and happiness at what you have created, Instead of sadness and grief over you being killed or maimed for life because you made a mistake in mixing, handling or using flash. Remember one thing!! ALL FLASH POWDERS ARE EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS. THEY WILL IGNITE FROM FRICTION, IMPACT, OR FLAME, NOT TO MENTION JUST A MERE STATIC SPARK OR EVEN JUST BECAUSE IT WANTS TO BLOWUP.... I for one want to get to know you and to be able to see your progress in this wonderful hobby/trade, and do not want to be a part of something bad happening to you or others around you by assisting in the making of flash.. Sorry, but friends don't let friends blow themselves up!!! You really need to do a whole lot more creeping before trying to stand up.. If you get what I mean Edited October 1, 2012 by RealmMaster
THEHODSONATOR Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 I understand your concern as i do realize the dangers associated with flash powders. however, you are both playing into what i call the NHL paradox. NHL paradox being: rookies dont get any ice time because they dont have experience. and they cant get experience without getting ice time. I want to know what to expect if i change my oxidizer to potassium nitrate instead of perchlorate mostly as an information gathering question. Will it work? will it require ratio changes? will it make the resultant bang larger or smaller? will the powder be more or less stable? is it a safer beginner composition ( as i have seen many people say that perchlorate black powders are stronger than KNO3 powders: is this relationship held with flash powders)? I'm not looking to fly any planes, I'm purely curious as what the result of this substitution would be, using this communitiy's collective knowledge rather than try it myself and potentially harming myself or property.
RealmMaster Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Sorry... But I myself still have to decline giving an answer,, Why? look below.. Signs that you just are too inexperienced to attempt FP. is it a safer beginner composition You admit being a beginner I'm purely curious as what the result of this substitution would be If you are only curious what the result would be I'll answer that. "ANSWER PROVIDED! as you were seeking!" Still a very unstable, dangerous mixture which again still is shock, static sensitive and still very unstable. using this communitiy's collective knowledge rather than try it myself and potentially harming myself or property. Childish remark trying to make us feel guilty, that if we don't give you what you want then you might harm yourself or property up. Not very clear and rational thinking. Please, just forget that FP even exists and stick to much safer and stable mixtures... I'm not telling any of this to be mean, I just don't want you to become a statistic or others around you.. We love helping people to achieve in this wonderful hobby/trade, But we also care about other peoples safety. I was a manufacturer for over 10 years and I cringed every time I had to go into one of the mixing bunkers to do FP, I respect FP and I know the dangers and also what kind of damage just a mere gram can do to the human body... Please, Just stay away from it and be safe... Colors are better then booms!! Your friend...
Mumbles Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I have to agree that this is probably too big of a jump. The NHL rookies will just have to bide their time and practice the basics and essential skills first one would imagine. This is not to mention making their way through minors and juniors, and probably some lesser professional levels first. You don't regularly jump from the local pond into the NHL overnight. Yes, a ratio change will be required. Yes, they will have different sensitivities and energy outputs. No one is going to say that these sorts of questions are necessarily bad to think about, but the answers will come to you with experience with other compositions and devices. There is no such thing as a "beginner composition" for flash powders. There is no sense in trying to take shortcuts and make half-assed attempts at devices or compositions. You'll learn more in the long run, and get more out of the hobby by doing things the right way the first time. I really suggest you pick up some of the pyrotechnic literature. It's well worth the cost, in information gained.
dagabu Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I've been playing with basic BP formulae for a while now and am comfortable moving on to flash powders now. however, being cheap, Im looking to improvise and substitute with chemicals i have on hand. First of many questions to come is : Can i substitute potassium nitrate for potassium perchlorate in a German dark aluminum flash powder?. will i need to change the ratios? how will it affect the resulting explosion? Thanks. Can you give an example and some pictures of the comps you have made and the fireworks you have made with them? 20 September 2012 - 07:46 PMHi guys! I'm a completey newbie with all of this stuff (this is my first post). I was wondering if there was any set ratio for the diameter of the nozzle like there was with the length of the rocket vs the diamete. Is there a formula where the diameter of the nozzle opening is related to the ID of the motor? Cheers This may be why we are asking...-dag
TheSidewinder Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I just cleaned up a few replies. Continue, please, but make sure it's done in a civil and mature manner. Thehodsonator: It really doesn't appear that you're at the stage where making any flash is a good idea. And the members aren't comfortable that you have the level of experience necessary. Until you can demonstrate what you already know and have done, and show them, that isn't likely to change. Flash is certainly one of the most dangerous compositions we work with. And there's good reason. We're also trying to make sure everyone stays safe, including you!
RealmMaster Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Good answer Sidewider.... I stand down and appreciate you giving your professional answer Edited October 3, 2012 by RealmMaster
eb11 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) hey guys just read the threads i will say this first i have only been making shell now for 6 months. i have watched salutes on youtube and how people make them and frankly it scares the hell out of me that someone would want to mess with this stuff,the only salutes i make are with bp and they are fine for me, but curiocity does ask me one question what does the aluminum do in the mix does it only produce the white flash. thanks Edited October 2, 2012 by eb11
dagabu Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 hey guys just read the threads i will say this first i have only been making shell now for 6 months. i have watched salutes on youtube and how people make them and frankly it scares the hell out of me that someone would want to mess with this stuff,the only salutes i make are with bp and they are fine for me, but curiocity does ask me one question what does the aluminum do in the mix does it only produce the white flash. thanks Great question EB. No, the aluminum is the fuel, it oxidizes and burns with brilliant white light (full spectrum light) but it is the speed at which the mix oxidizes that causes the noise because of the pressure wave created by the explosion itself. (All you science guys out there, feel free to correct this, I am not a chemist and am relying on my memory here.) -dag
dagabu Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 so i thought the pot perc was the oxidizer Yes, that is correct. The Perc is the oxidizer and the aluminum is the fuel. It is the rapid oxidization of the Aluminum that causes the pressure wave and resulting report. -dag
eb11 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) thanks dag you location says up nort are you in the u.s. Edited October 2, 2012 by eb11
dagabu Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 thanks dag you location says up nort are you in the u.s. Yes, in fact, if you click on my signature, you will see that I am located in Minnesota, USA. That reminds me, I am a member of the Iowa club as well. Looks like I have to update that huh? -dag
eb11 Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 hey guys i found this video on youtube showing the sensitivity of flash powder vs anderson if i am out of line for posting the video please tell me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv7i5A45zio&feature=related
Floydism Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Althought armstong's mixture is clearly the more shock/friction sensitive than flash, it's the resultant explosion that's the issue, and there's easily enough heat in a small static spark to get your flash going,. I'd like to see a nice demonstration vid involving small amounts of flash and fingers made of ballistics gel, I dare say it'd be rather educational for anybody in any doubt of how scary this stuff can be.
AirCowPeacock Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Theres no need to just straight from BP to flash. I spent years making BP. Then I started mixing whistle mix, small quanitities for boosting small shells (which took me years to effectivly make), that was all I needed and that was all I wanted. When I finally got my first pound of -325 mesh bright flake Al I made my first flash. Slow flash, and thats all Ive made since. Its plenty powerful enough for me, and still makes me cringe when I make it.I dont store it, and I dont make more than I need. And I never ever ever make or use more than 10 grams at a time, ever. I keep an eye on static and use a full sheet of newspaper to diaper mix it. I don't see any reason why I would ever need or want to make anything more powerful and dangerous then the flash I make now. Some experienced people here make large quantities of perchlorate flash with dark aluminium--and although they follow all the (other) safty percausions there or (except of course not making or storing large quantities of flash) it seems so foolish to me. 10g of slow flash going off near me would be devistating--but a pound of hot flash would kill me. It would kill you too. Its not worth your life. Especially when large 'boomers' can be made well with Black Powder. But even black powder is not fool proff. Stau safe, stay alive. Edited October 30, 2012 by AirCowPeacock
RealmMaster Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I did up a mixture this evening for some salutes for my wifes display, these are old school... never mess with clorates and sulpur.. They will blow yer hands off making them!!!! But I'll tell you what... 1/2 gram of this in just a paper towel sounds like a 10 gauge shotgun going off!!! First time using elkart dark instead of what we called fire flake..... IT ROCKS!!!!
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