Blue Aluminium in the UK!

[Scrumpy]

I know you guys in the states have had this for quite a while but this is still new to us over the pond.

Finally I have some for sale at www.oliverbrown.co.uk , not had a chance to play with it yet myself but the feedback I am getting is incredible. Anything that adds an element of safety has to be a good thing.

Is this just as stable with chlorates as it is with perchlorates?

Alex

[Col]

Using it with chlorate would make it more sensitive,which kind of defeats the point of it being safe. Chlorates have more compatability issues than perch which add to the risk.

 

Dont take this the wrong way but you might want to edit out the company links in your post. Mia already plugged the blue aluminium in the supplier reviews, which was naughty when he`s affiliated with the company selling it.

 

Forum Rule 9. This forum is for discussion of pyrotechnics mainly. Please do not use it solely to try to further your commercial ventures, whether related or not to the subject matter.

[optimus]

That's the most expensive Al I've ever seen. What kind of feedback are you getting?

[Mia]

Using it with chlorate would make it more sensitive,which kind of defeats the point of it being safe. Chlorates have more compatability issues than perch which add to the risk.

 

Dont take this the wrong way but you might want to edit out the company links in your post. Mia already plugged the blue aluminium in the supplier reviews, which was naughty when he`s affiliated with the company selling it.

I would like to point you in the direction of solely? We imported this product from the USA at great expense! But what price do you put on safety? So far tests have proven with chlorate and perchlorate this product dose what the manufacture claims in that it is very safe to use with oxidisers, my affiliation and loyalty to the above said company is purely research for chemical supply’s and some tooling design.

If you would like to try some blue for friction tests and impact tests please contact us for a free sample then you can draw your own conclusions.@ optimus yes it is expensive due to shipping costs even though it is classed as non-hazards product.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Mia

[optimus]

If you would like to try some blue for friction tests and impact tests please contact us for a free sample then you can draw your own conclusions.@ optimus yes it is expansive due to shipping costs even though it is classed as non-hazards product.

 

By 'contact us for a free sample' do you mean contact OliverBrown? Or are you the same person?

[Mia]

The invitation was to Colin not the whole community

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

We imported this product from the USA at great expense! But what price do you put on safety?

First of all this isn't imported from the US, it comes from a well known supplier here in the EU, they offer it since not so long time.

Dark aluminum is just as safe as this blue aluminum, I bet you or anybody else would handle both type of flash powders with the same safety measures.

Edited October 1, 2012 by FREAKYDUTCHMEN

[Mumbles]

As long as people are not here solely to push commercial ventures, I'm okay with occasional advertisements and announcements.

 

I'm still interested to see impact, friction, and spark tests if anyone undertakes them. From the information I've seen regarding it's composition, the aluminum is primarily a mixed atomized product, possibly with some flake blended in. I suspect a similar product is available from numerous different aluminum powder manufacturers. There hasn't been much out on the resale market here in the US yet for anyone to really get a good look at it. All I've seen is some guy holding a blowtorch to some of the composition. Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but when was the last time anyone dropped a lit blowtorch into a batch of flash? A few of the people I've seen involved in this, I would not exactly hold in the highest confidence or regard in any case.

 

My concerns are more in that the spin being put on this product are depicting it as being overly safe, which may cause individuals to be more careless or give a false sense of security. I agree with Freakydutchman. It is probably just as safe as dark aluminum, and I am expecting it to have similar sensitivity properties.

[Scrumpy]

My post was intended to evoke some discussion by our UK members as blue aluminium has not been available here before, yes of course it's a plug but what better way to let a lot of people know and give opportunity to discuss.

I know Mia quite well, he doesn't work for the company as such but has an input on many aspects of how I do things, he sources products and is a great designer of tooling. There has been some confusion as I told Mia I was importing blue aluminium from abroad and I guess he thought USA, as Freaky Dutchman pointed out there is an EU supplier, this is indeed where I bought it from.

As for safety, I agree, much more testing is needed, a guy with a blowtorch on YouTube is not conclusive, and you would have to be a little wet behind the ears to think flash will ever be safe.

[Col]

The invitation was to Colin not the whole community

 

I bought half a kilo of Super H about 5 years ago for £9.50 and i still have most of it.

Imho, the availability of blue Al in the uk will increase the number of anti social incidents involving salutes because its advertised as risk free unlike dark flake. The more sensible (and well heeled) louts that steered clear due to the risks can now make large salutes and feel relatively safe doing so. If Mum`s and FD`s prediction`s prove true, some of these guys could well end up in A&E with fingers/limbs missing.

In the long run, its likely to have a negative impact on the hobby in the uk and put tighter restrictions on the companies selling pyro chems.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Col

[psyco_1322]

What a scam... "blue" aluminum...just a waste atomized byproduct of something else's production. You can get the same results out of many atomized Al. The video is a hoax, there isn't any oxidizer in that, no way is it possible for it to turn red hot and not cause reaction with the oxidizer. It won't be worth a shit unless you use some kind of extra initiation or booster. Save your money and buy the dark Al, which will work perfectly fine. Safety is only as good as you make it, I wouldn't be hitting a hammer into anything, even if 10 hooligans said it was "safe". Just a guy trying to make a quick buck on some shit he picked up for a low price.

 

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

[bomy]

First of all this isn't imported from the US, it comes from a well known supplier here in the EU, they offer it since not so long time.

Dark aluminum is just as safe as this blue aluminum, I bet you or anybody else would handle both type of flash powders with the same safety measures.

 

 

PG? Its not even "real" Blue Al they are selling

[optimus]

the feedback I am getting is incredible.

 

Are you able to elaborate on this?

[dagabu]

What a scam... "blue" aluminum...just a waste atomized byproduct of something else's production. You can get the same results out of many atomized Al. The video is a hoax, there isn't any oxidizer in that, no way is it possible for it to turn red hot and not cause reaction with the oxidizer. It won't be worth a shit unless you use some kind of extra initiation or booster. Save your money and buy the dark Al, which will work perfectly fine. Safety is only as good as you make it, I wouldn't be hitting a hammer into anything, even if 10 hooligans said it was "safe". Just a guy trying to make a quick buck on some shit he picked up for a low price.

 

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

 

Nope, it's not a hoax. I was there this past year when another test was performed with the aluminum, I was able to watch the mixing of the perc and blue aluminum and all the handling myself. There is no "booster" needed, just confinement. Tests were performed with a 6" long piece of green chinese visco in the pile, a piezoelectric igniter and blowtorch. The stuff just would not ignite. The pile was then dumped into a tube by a VERY well known and widely respected manufacturer, capped, spiked, fused and ignited on a wooden frame.

 

It did go BOOM and it was notably louder than another conventional GB lit earlier.

 

Hell, I don't know why it works, I don't know how it works, I won't be paying x4 the price of my cheap old aluminum I use for reports but it is not a hoax in any case.

 

-dag

 

I certainly agree with both freaky and mum about safety though, there is no "safe" flash, period. However, this "flash" may one day be allowed to be mixed in the open at club builds due to its insensitivity to ignition in a heap.

[Mia]

Thank you for your input on this subject Dag, I personally have tested this at my own risk and can confirm after talks with the supplier and testing it does what the manufacture said, it will not combust even with a blow torch held against it, it just melts with a few sparks friction tests show no issues and also impact tests, it’s not so much about louts saving fingers more like a revolution in the manufacture of fireworks, yes it is expensive (at the moment) but like most things demand should get the price down, thanks again for your input Regards Mia Oh and to you guys that think this is Fake well no visit the site Blue aluminium there is an EU supply it just cuts down on our shipping charge (from now on).

[Mia]

First of all this isn't imported from the US, it comes from a well known supplier here in the EU, they offer it since not so long time.

Dark aluminum is just as safe as this blue aluminum, I bet you or anybody else would handle both type of flash powders with the same safety measures.

First of all this isn't imported from the US, it comes from a well known supplier here in the EU, they offer it since not so long time.

Dark aluminum is just as safe as this blue aluminum, I bet you or anybody else would handle both type of flash powders with the same safety measures.

wrong

[dagabu]

First of all this isn't imported from the US, it comes from a well known supplier here in the EU, they offer it since not so long time.

Dark aluminum is just as safe as this blue aluminum, I bet you or anybody else would handle both type of flash powders with the same safety measures.

 

This is really interesting to hear since the drums that the aluminum came in were printed with "product of the united states"... Now, that does not mean that it cannot be made in the EU but as far as I understand, it was a group of Americans (most are PGI old snorts) that found/made/came up with the idea if not the actual product that they are now marketing.

 

The even more interesting thing here is that we have to have an explosives license to buy it in the US, I imagine Mia does not require that from you all.

 

I'm not arguing BTW, I really don't care one way or the other, I am just sharing my hands on experiences with the stuff.

 

-dag

[Mia]

The product (blue aluminium) is shipped as non-hazarders compound to EU not sure how your rules comply within the USA, but as you say it is a very interesting subject and yes your right PGI old school guys and what a great bunch of guy’s, personally i feel it is a breath of fresh air to the world of pyrotechnics! Makes a change to living out of old books and dark secrets, I made some reports for a rocket 14 per one pound motor, tube size was 10mm two grams of blue flash per insert ran a test and boy for something I could not ignite with a blow torch the results were incredible it is a deeper louder report not so bright! But very very good Edited October 2, 2012 by Mia

[dagabu]

I enjoyed the deeper tone they made as well. The sharpness of dark pyro is painful to my ears but the deep resonant tone of the blue does not bother me even at close range such as the GB line. I do believe that the Blue Al is sold only to those with a license as a marketing decision in order to limit their exposure to liability, not because of actual laws since it is non flammable.

 

-dag

[FlaMtnBkr]

I am a little curious how flash can glow red with a blow torch yet light reliably with only a piece of visco once confined in a tube. I can see if it lit with the blow torch but burned slowly but not igniting at all?

 

I posted about a "safe" flash on Passfire and no one really seemed interested in it even though it is pretty cheap and I have done some testing showing it seems quite a bit more safe than regular 70/30. Yet people seem all excited about this blue aluminum which isn't really available yet and looks like it will be expensive when it is.The "safe" flash burns when unconfined but quite slowly. It burns more like a slow star comp so if there is an accidental ignition you can just get up and walk away. 20 g in a paper cup took 8 or 9 seconds to burn up. Yet when confined in a tube, testing (not mine) has shown it to actually be louder and more powerful than the standard 70/30. I guess it didn't gain much excitement because me and the other member who pointed it out to me aren't "old snorts" of the PGI and are rather unknown in the pyro world.

 

But I'm not sure how I feel about something being advertised as "safe". People will read that and will disregard any safety practices and possibly make giant ground bombs because they have lost the respect of the dangerous flash powder. Thats why I haven't gone into here as there seem to be more newbies around asking about flash than on other sites. If any members who have been around a while and are in good standing and hopefully HE Qualified want some details feel free to send me a message.

[Mia]

Old snorts are the future of pyrotechnics AKA experienced. Blue is available within the EU or direct from the USA.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I enjoyed the deeper tone they made as well. The sharpness of dark pyro is painful to my ears but the deep resonant tone of the blue does not bother me even at close range such as the GB line. I do believe that the Blue Al is sold only to those with a license as a marketing decision in order to limit their exposure to liability, not because of actual laws since it is non flammable.

 

-dag

 

You don't know how to use 7:3 flash with dark aluminum This can make a nice deep tone with thin casings for example, for air salutes use plastic cans.

[dagabu]

You don't know how to use 7:3 flash with dark aluminum This can make a nice deep tone with thin casings for example, for air salutes use plastic cans.

 

You are damn-skippy-right FD, the biggest salute I have ever made is 50g for a whistle rocket heading. I leave the b00m3rz to you thump junkies...

 

-dag

[FlaMtnBkr]

I know what old snorts is in reference to. But it sounds like the blue is more widely available in the EU than the US. I haven't heard of anyone using it here except for a couple well known folks who are probably friends with the people bringing it to market. I have also heard it is only available in full drum quantities if you have an explosive permit. Not many people have it yet here.

 

So I would like to see as many videos from the EU guys as possible showing it in use as well as testing it.

 

I personally don't see using it when the binary method can be used, especially if it's more expensive. But when loading small inserts it is really nice to be able to mix up a batch of “safe" vit F and load all the inserts at one time. To have a bunch of flash out and spread around can be a bit nerve wracking. But knowing that if there is an accidental ignition with the safe stuff that there won't be a dangerous hot flame that encompasses the work area instantly, but a slow flame that you can walk away from is a bit reassuring.

 

I would be curious how the blue does in a 2 or 3g insert.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

You are damn-skippy-right FD, the biggest salute I have ever made is 50g for a whistle rocket heading. I leave the b00m3rz to you thump junkies...

 

-dag

 

Then why are you replying 3 times in this topic?