just how dangerous is this reaction?

[taiwanluthiers]

On the wikipedia page for barium chlorate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_chlorate

 

It says you can make barium chlorate by first producing (or buying, cheaper) barium carbonate, then producing ammonium bitartrate (or buy it). Then mix the ammonium bitartrate with potassium chlorate to make ammonium chlorate, and finally mix that with barium carbonate and boil it to form barium chlorate.

 

First two looks tame if proper chemistry precaution is taken, but the third step looks unsafe because you are producing ammonium chlorate which is something that every pyro literature says not to do. I am guessing since no fuels are involved the ammonium chlorate would have nothing to react with, but once the barium chlorate is formed, wouldn't there be any excess ammonium chlorate that might be lurking around somewhere?

[pyrojig]

That seems like the long way around to making BaClo3

It seems that one could use Ba chloride and Naclo3 or kclo3 to do a double decomp. The two are brought into solution with min amt of h2o, then combined and allowed to react to Baclo3 which should fall out of solution and Na or kcl will stay in due to solubility . This is just off the top of my head, but was explained by another pyro chemist to me. There will be need to recrystallize and purify( if Na salts are used this is especially needed).

[taiwanluthiers]

I've read somewhere that its impossible to totally remove the Na salts, that no matter how much recrystalization is done enough will still remain to hurt the colors, and it doesn't take much so its always helpful to avoid sodium altogether...

[Mumbles]

Pyrojig, that doesn't work for potassium. If you're decent with chemistry, sodium should be possible, though not very efficient.

[a_bab]

Actually barium chlorate has been made by double decomp method in the past and it's the prefered method for reagent grade Ba chlorate. The issue is indeed removing all the sodium which can be done by many recrystalization cycles, enough to maybe half the yield.

 

To answer your question, you were right: ammonium chlorate in solution is suposedly harmles. The danger I see could be spilling in on clothing, which would result in a possible fire once dried and rubbed (or just "because" - this scenario is seen as a posibility in the Pepcon disaster).

 

Some peple dare to dry ammonium chlorate - you can find some reports on the 'net.

Even Shimizu describes an experiment with the "beast".

 

 

Either way, I'd go for the NaClO3 route.

Electrolysis of BaCl2 is yet another possibility and it should be quite easy to do (there is some info).

Edited August 12, 2012 by a_bab

[pyrojig]

Actually barium chlorate has been made by double decomp method in the past and it's the prefered method for reagent grade Ba chlorate. The issue is indeed removing all the sodium which can be done by many recrystalization cycles, enough to maybe half the yield.

 

To answer your question, you were right: ammonium chlorate in solution is suposedly harmles. The danger I see could be spilling in on clothing, which would result in a possible fire once dried and rubbed (or just "because" - this scenario is seen as a posibility in the Pepcon disaster).

 

Some peple dare to dry ammonium chlorate - you can find some reports on the 'net.

Even Shimizu describes an experiment with the "beast".

 

 

Either way, I'd go for the NaClO3 route.

Electrolysis of BaCl2 is yet another possibility and it should be quite easy to do (there is some info).

 

@mumbles .

You are correct about kclo3.( due to the solubility issue). I wasn't quite awake when I responded lol, but I think the point was made by the dbbl decomp method. Isnt chemistry wonderful though !! Gotta love being able to create oxidizers to suit the purpose at hand.

 

@ a_bob

I believe the answer is in the last sentence. Electrolysis of Bacl2. Im sure it has its idiosyncracies as well.

Edited August 13, 2012 by pyrojig