viziers Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Ok I have finally got around to making a "real" batch of BP with my home made paulownia charcoal. I have a 15 lb mill that is under charged with media (1/2" brass)so my first task was to crush my solid chunk of KN03 with a mallet (sat for 3 years)then I sieved it through a kitchen strainer. I then put the needed amount of KN03 and charcoal in my mill for 6 hours (remember my mill is undercharged with media) then I added the sulfer today for another 6 hours of milling... below are 2 burn tests of various amounts of milled BP the first sample was after a 3 hour run and the second is of a 6 hour run.. 3 hours of milling with sulfer added no dex added yet!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWOcXy6Swq0 6 hours of milling with sulfer added no dex added yet!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9nxfuoyRvM as i'm not well versed in the quality of BP making i'd like to have your opinions on how well you feel the mix is and if it needs more milling time? Oh and this is all straight green meal. thanks,vizi Edited August 3, 2012 by viziers
Jason Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 From what I see it looks plenty fast enough to coat on rice hulls and granulate for lift... my mill runs for 3 hours every time, I feel consistency is more important than speed.. so, if thats all green mix I would definitely think 4 hours and just mill with your dextrin added in looks to be plenty of time
Mumbles Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I'd say stick with the 6hr milled stuff. It looks quite hot. The 3hr isn't quite there in my opinion. They'll both probably work, but the 6hr stuff will probably be more inline with the rule of thumb recommendations which are based on good quality commercial meal.
viziers Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Thanks guys, Ill add the dex today and mil it for an additional 5 hours to make sure the dex is really mixed in being my mill is undercharged with media (I have another 8' of 1/2" brass rod on it's way here).... After the milling comes the tricky part and that is adding the water/acl to the mis without over wetting or under wetting as I want to make sure when I screen it through the 4 & 20 screens that it stays together when dried... I figure 4 mesh is good for lift and to fill the canister and the 20 mesh would be good for the cannule and to fill small spaces... I may even try a spoolette.... Thanks all for your input, and if anyone has any other input or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.. vizi Edited August 3, 2012 by viziers
FrankRizzo Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 Instead of milling your BP + dextrin mixture for an additional 6 hours, make a 10% solution of dextrin in hot water, put it in a spray bottle, and mist the powder with that solution while gently mixing to the proper consistency for granulation. You'll use less dextrin doing it this way, and by using less, make a better BP. 15-18% moisture is what usually works best for me. Each squirt of my spray bottle is approx. 0.7-1g of solution, so a 1kg batch uses about 200 squirts.
Arthur Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 I'd suggest grating the dampened mix against a cheese grater -they stand up to the abuse better than sieve mesh does. Once you have grated powder dry it in the sun and wind and then grade it using selected sizes of sieve mesh.
dagabu Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 I'd suggest grating the dampened mix against a cheese grater -they stand up to the abuse better than sieve mesh does. Once you have grated powder dry it in the sun and wind and then grade it using selected sizes of sieve mesh. 1/4" hardware cloth is heavy duty and can stand the abuse. Cheese graters dont give very thick cuts and you cant make large granules for shell filler from them. -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 How coarse is your BP that you use for lift, dag? I tried a coarse cheese grater and got in principle the equivalents of 2FA and 4FA.
viziers Posted August 4, 2012 Author Posted August 4, 2012 The 4 mesh I have is from McMaster Carr it held up quite wellso far from the first batch (about 1/2 lb).. But I think i'll just use the 4 mesh as there seems to be a fair amount of finer grains (i'm almost positive I had my ball of BP was wet enough as it was like play-doh consistantcy.... vizi
dagabu Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 How coarse is your BP that you use for lift, dag? I tried a coarse cheese grater and got in principle the equivalents of 2FA and 4FA. Depends on the shell or insert. I primarily make cylinders and use a lot of filler, I would call it pulverone but since it is ball milled and whetted with boiling water and just a small touch of dextrin, Ill call it BP filler instead. That filler BP is 1FA to 2FA in size and then the rest is screened out all the way down to fines. Since I am a rocket guy, I use the fines in rockets, 4FA as break up to 5" cylinders and 2FA for larger shells and for lifting all my cylinders as it provides a softer lift then higher mesh BP. The hardware cloth gives me square or nearly so grains and no elongated grains to make air pockets. And its a lot faster then a grater as well. -dag
viziers Posted August 4, 2012 Author Posted August 4, 2012 Well for me (since i'm new to building canister shells) i'll be using the 4 mesh for filler around the cannule as well... Ill try to get some decent pics of my BP when I am able to screen it.. vizi
yvariro Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Greats blackpowder! did you granulate it or it 's meal powder ?
Mumbles Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 I'm going to agree with Dag here. I've tried a cheese grater, and didn't really like it. The granules can definitely be graded to fit into the 2FA or 4FA range, but my issue was that it came out more as ribbons, which were more fragile than I would prefer. For me a screen granulated powder gives rounder granules, which seem to be very resilient. If a grater works for you, I wouldn't change it. I just prefer a screen.
viziers Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Here are some pictures of my granulating of BP they are not the best pics so bear with me. http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3459.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3458.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3457.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3454.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3453.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3452.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3451.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3451.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3450.jpghttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3449.jpg and some paulownia charcoal that need to be crushed.http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt89/vizierspty/DSCF3455.jpg vizi Edited August 5, 2012 by viziers
dagabu Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Actually, your BP looks pretty darn good! My grater makes really thin pieces and look nothing like that. -dag
deadman Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure viziers used a 4 mesh screen not a grater. Looks ready to go.
viziers Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure viziers used a 4 mesh screen not a grater. Looks ready to go. I'm sorry, yes this was done with a 4 mesh... Seems to me that there is more 3,4 & 5fa than there is 2fa, is this normal or should I have made the BP into a pancake of sorts and passed it through the screen rather do it in a ball?? vizi
viziers Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 I tested some of the thicker grains and they seem to break apart somewhat easily... Is this proper? vizi
viziers Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) So i'll need a bit of help now from the veteran BP makers.... I have 3 grades of BP after being screened... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEufxIqAC-A I have in the square tub what would not fit through a 4 mesh screen as seen in the vid, the middle circular tub is what passed through a 4 mesh screen but not a 10 mesh screen and the small orange circular tub is what passed through a 10 mesh screen... So should I crumble what wouldnt fit through the 4 mesh until it does fit through a 4 mesh and screen down accordingly?? Or would those huge chunks (some have pieces stuck together) be ok as filler as they just seem too big for a 4" can? Hopefully this will maybe help other new BP makers to. vizi Edited August 5, 2012 by viziers
Mumbles Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 There seems to be more of the larger stuff than usual. You can break up the pieces if you'd like, or use them for filler if you'd prefer. Just rubbing on the 4 mesh screen may be enough to break up some of the pieces. One thing that helps in making sure everything is fine enough is to rescreen it after a an hour or so. This will break up any lumps and adhering pieces.
Potassiumchlorate Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 What do you guys think about this? Are these too small to lift a 5" or 6" or are they just OK? They mostly range between 0.5 and 1.5mm. A few are bigger and a few smaller, a few are oblong, but most are pretty round.
viziers Posted August 6, 2012 Author Posted August 6, 2012 There seems to be more of the larger stuff than usual. You can break up the pieces if you'd like, or use them for filler if you'd prefer. Just rubbing on the 4 mesh screen may be enough to break up some of the pieces. One thing that helps in making sure everything is fine enough is to rescreen it after a an hour or so. This will break up any lumps and adhering pieces. Ill give then a rough screening to break some of them up as I really did not get much in the way of 4 mesh BP which Id like to use as lift and break charges & as filler. As I know I will have a lot of room left over in my 4" cans with using 1/2" pumped stars and with also using a 1/25" canulle. vizi
dagabu Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 What do you guys think about this? Are these too small to lift a 5" or 6" or are they just OK? They mostly range between 0.5 and 1.5mm. A few are bigger and a few smaller, a few are oblong, but most are pretty round. Yes, i would go with larger pieces, like this: -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Hm, that's more like what I use now, and that doesn't feel really efficient. I was thinking about what Mumbles said in another thread about going down to 5% of the shell weight and use pretty fine granules.
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