The504 Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Is it possible to swap Parlon with another chemical that is just as good? I plan on using veline star system and using Gary Smith's star system. Edited July 24, 2012 by The504
Potassiumchlorate Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 PVC is a bit lower in chlorine but will probably do.
Mumbles Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 If you're still planning on binding with acetone then you'll need parlon instead of most of the others. If you're going to go with the normal method of binding the stars with water, PVC and saran should both work. There are other chlorine donors, but I'm not as familiar with them, but they should be able to work. One thing you should be aware of is that parlon has a much poorer fuel value than PVC or saran, so swapping with one of them may make the star burn faster and possibly hurt the color. A little tweaking may be required. On a side note, I really dislike PVC. I'm sure it's a great material, but most of the stuff I've dealt with in the US is somewhat granular and packed full of static. It sticks to everything.
The504 Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) If you're still planning on binding with acetone then you'll need parlon instead of most of the others. If you're going to go with the normal method of binding the stars with water, PVC and saran should both work. There are other chlorine donors, but I'm not as familiar with them, but they should be able to work. One thing you should be aware of is that parlon has a much poorer fuel value than PVC or saran, so swapping with one of them may make the star burn faster and possibly hurt the color. A little tweaking may be required. On a side note, I really dislike PVC. I'm sure it's a great material, but most of the stuff I've dealt with in the US is somewhat granular and packed full of static. It sticks to everything. Ok I can get saran. How do I cut stars using water? Just put all the screened chems in a bowl and slowly add water till it's like clay? Edited July 24, 2012 by The504
Mumbles Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 You have to make sure there is dextrin in the composition. You pretty much described the essential technique. If you're going to make a patty of star composition to cut, I find you need somewhere between 18 and 30% water usually. Be patient, it's easy to over wet it if you're not familiar with the composition or technique. When I am getting close, I like to let the composition sit for 30 min or so to allow the water to even out and fully activate all the dextrin.
The504 Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) You have to make sure there is dextrin in the composition. You pretty much described the essential technique. If you're going to make a patty of star composition to cut, I find you need somewhere between 18 and 30% water usually. Be patient, it's easy to over wet it if you're not familiar with the composition or technique. When I am getting close, I like to let the composition sit for 30 min or so to allow the water to even out and fully activate all the dextrin. I can add dextrin but how much should I add like if I make a 200g batch should I add 10 grams of dextrin? Edited July 24, 2012 by The504
Mumbles Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Veline already has dextrin in it. Yes, +5% is pretty standard.
The504 Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Veline already has dextrin in it. Yes, +5% is pretty standard. What about Gary Smith's Stars? How would I add Dextrin to it? Edited July 24, 2012 by The504
The504 Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 Can I even add Dextrin to the chart I attached?
taiwanluthiers Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I use Chlorowax, behaves pretty much like Parlon but they say chlorowax burns better so not sure if it hurts the color of sensitive comps like blues....
graumann Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 "Can I even add Dextrin to the chart I attached? " You substitute the red gum for dextrin, so yes but I believe red gum may have a different fuel value to dex so you need to compensate. "Is it possible to swap Parlon with another chemical" Again yes, but depending what you swap it with you need to compensate for the amount of chlorine that parlon donates. Parlon being about 70% chlorine, PVC typically 50-60% and saran 70-75%. So the end result would be that if you used saran, use a little less than the formula, the plus side to this is the saran would compensate for the lost fuel in the form of the red gum. When you are wetting the comp adding a little for your favourite alcohol (isopropyl, denatured, ethanol) to help the water mix a little more readily. I usually would opt for binding with dex/water rather than parlon/acetone just because it isn't as messy and easier to work with and more forgiving.
dagabu Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You have to use Dextrine if not using acetone to bind the comp unless using denatured alcohol to activate the Red Gum. -dag
The504 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 I'll be using 75/25 water:alcohol ratio and adding Dextrin to it.
Mumbles Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 The red of Gary Smith's parlon stars is based off of Ruby Red. You might as well just use that. I think he just took all of the dextrin and converted 1:1 to parlon. I think the others sort of branch off from there. You should be able to just add 4 or 5% dextrin though if you don't want to mess with it.
The504 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 The red of Gary Smith's parlon stars is based off of Ruby Red. You might as well just use that. I think he just took all of the dextrin and converted 1:1 to parlon. I think the others sort of branch off from there. You should be able to just add 4 or 5% dextrin though if you don't want to mess with it. Would adding Dextrin to it make a big difference?
The504 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Try it and let us know. These will be my first stars. So I'll see how it goes.
Potassiumchlorate Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I use Chlorowax, behaves pretty much like Parlon but they say chlorowax burns better so not sure if it hurts the color of sensitive comps like blues.... Chlorowax is my new favourite chlorine donor, since I got 1kg of it cheap some year ago. It has a bit higher chlorine content than parlon and is much cheaper. Also you rarely use more than 5% of it, so 1kg will usually do for at least 20kg of composition. Blue becomes a little bit brighter than with parlon, although that's not a concern for me. Edited July 25, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
taiwanluthiers Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Can you tell me how do I modify the formula when using chlorowax in place of parlon? I usually use the same amount of chlorowax as the formula calls for Parlon... should I use a bit less? The chlorowax burns better and has 70% chlorine (same as Parlon) but some have said that the fact that it burns better means that the fuel balance will be off, so for sensitive colors like blue the extra temp. will throw the color off. I usually use around 8-12% as that is what most formula calls for...
Potassiumchlorate Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm not really sure of that. I usually use chlorowax in compositions that contain only small amounts of external chlorine donors in the first place. Also, my blues are usuallay chlorate based.
Potassiumchlorate Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 This is pretty unscientifically, but I think that you can simply take a potassium perchlorate based composition, where parlon is used in a low percentage, and use potassium chlorate and chlorowax instead. It will burn much faster than the perchlorate based one, but you can slow it down again by using shellac instead of red gum. This one by Shimizu, for instance: Potassium perchlorate 66.5Copper(II)oxide 13.4Parlon 5.4Red gum 9.9Dextrin 4.8 Thus: Potassium chlorate 66.5Copper(II)oxide 13.4Chlorowax 5.4Red gum or shellac 9.9Dextrin 4.8 The chlorate based one will also have a larger flame and (probably) better colour.
Fester Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 I've tested Chloroparaffin 70 as a Chlorine donor in blue stars. It works preety well.
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