Pasting, pasting....

[Nessalco]

If the state doesn't impose a burn ban (keeping my fingers crossed!) I'll be shooting my annual home show on August 11th. Here's the 1.3g shells I've finished so far - about half what I need.

 

This is gonna be a blast!

 

Kevin

[PyroAce]

Looking very nice.

 

How much lift are you using with those round shells!!?

[Lance]

Looks fantastic, too bad the image is too small for us to read the label on each shell so I guess we'll need to wait till the video. Good luck ! Edited July 19, 2012 by Lance

[Nessalco]

I'm still very much a beginner, so it's all simple stuff. Comets and peony shells in various colors, a couple of go-getter shells, and some rings.

 

PyroAce - for the 3" shells I'm using between 3/4 and 1 ounce. For the 4" shells, between 1.5 and 2.25 ounce - some of the shells with granite stars are pretty heavy.

 

Kevin

Edited July 19, 2012 by Nessalco

[PyroCube]

Wow that`s a lot of work

But it`s looking very nice, hope it looks

even nicer in the air...

How much time did you spend to build all these shells?

 

 

 

Greets

[LehighValleyPyro]

Very nice!

 

 

One clarification - Nothing you or anyone else builds at home is 1.3g or 1.4g. Those are designations by DOT.

[dagabu]

Very nice!

 

 

One clarification - Nothing you or anyone else builds at home is 1.3g or 1.4g. Those are designations by DOT.

 

Clarification to your clarification, according to the BATFE, they are Display Fireworks which the DOT classifies as 1.3g or UN 0430, Articles Pyrotechnic.

 

"You may manufacture display fireworks for personal use at your property without obtaining a Federal explosives license or permit (a manufacturer’s license is needed only by persons engaged in the business of manufacturing fireworks for sale, distribution, or other commercial purpose). However, where storage occurs, you must comply with all storage requirements in 27 CFR, Part 555, Subpart K. In addition, a Federal explosives license or permit is required to transport, or cause to be transported, the explosive materials, even to the location of the club activity."

 

"The exemption for ‘consumer fireworks’ or ‘articles pyrotechnic’ found in 27 CFR § 555.141(a)(7) states that Part 555 (Commerce in Explosives) does not apply to “The importation, distribution, and storage of fireworks classified as UN0336, UN0337, UN0431, or UN0432 explosives by the U.S. Department of Transportation at 49 CFR 172.101…” The definition for “display fireworks” states, in part, that “…Display fireworks are classified as fireworks UN0333, UN0334 or UN0335 by the U.S. Department of Transportation at 49 CFR 172.101…” Therefore, this reclassification by USDOT causes these materials to fall under the definition of display fireworks."

 

-dag

Edited July 19, 2012 by dagabu

[LehighValleyPyro]

"Clarification to your clarification, according to the BATFE, they are Display Fireworks which the DOT classifies as 1.3g or UN 0430, Articles Pyrotechnic."

Dag - What DOT would classify as 1.3 depends on the composition and size of the device. For instance, bulk salutes or aerial shells exceeding 10 inches in diameter are 1.1g:

"The U.S. Department of Transportation is now following this standard in requiring aerial display shells exceeding 10-inches in diameter to be labeled as “UN0333, 1.1G.”

So in this case you're probably correct, since the OP's devices probably aren't bulk salutes, HEs or shells larger than 10 inches. However, not all homemade devices would necessarily be classified by DOT as 1.3g.

 

[dagabu]

"Clarification to your clarification, according to the BATFE, they are Display Fireworks which the DOT classifies as 1.3g or UN 0430, Articles Pyrotechnic."

Dag - What DOT would classify as 1.3 depends on the composition and size of the device. For instance, bulk salutes or aerial shells exceeding 10 inches in diameter are 1.1g:

"The U.S. Department of Transportation is now following this standard in requiring aerial display shells exceeding 10-inches in diameter to be labeled as "UN0333, 1.1G."

So in this case you're probably correct, since the OP's devices probably aren't bulk salutes, HEs or shells larger than 10 inches. However, not all homemade devices would necessarily be classified by DOT as 1.3g.

 

 

Not so, according to letters received by others and clarifications made at PGI 2010, even adding a BP slurry to the end of visco fuse is "treated as if it were 1.3g". Say what you will but any modification makes it AT LEAST 1.3g if not 1.1. Split hairs if you wish but please do not paint a picture that of a 1.4 type item, without an EX number, it MAY be treated as Infernal Machine or at least as a regulated explosive and can carry a class-d felony at minimum if transported without license.

 

If you wish to have more clarification, I will speak directly with the ATF agents at PGI in three weeks and will scan the letter I receive in response here.

 

-dag

[Nessalco]

One clarification - Nothing you or anyone else builds at home is 1.3g or 1.4g. Those are designations by DOT.

 

<shrug> They have to be treated as if they were 1.3g, stored in a magazine, etc. My labels simply say "Display Fireworks".

 

Kevin

[Mumbles]

Nothing we make will be "articles, pyrotechnic" in the sense of how that term is interpreted versus display fireworks or consumer fireworks, even though that is the official UN name for all fireworks of all types. Thats the classification given to essentially professional or technical use class C, and still has testing and qualifications to go through. This is the class that Estes motors are in. Getting this qualification instead of display fireworks or whatever the technical name for general class C pyro gives the devices different shipping and storage requirements.

 

I really have no idea why we're talking about this anyway. Nessalco is completely within the laws from what I've heard. I don't think anyone was ever insinuating that the things we make can be considered 1.4g. Just that everything is 1.3g automatically, and may be increased to 1.1g should the devices ever get that large, or be comprised of bulk salutes. These are all transportation designations anyway, but there isn't necessarily a good term or code otherwise since class c and class b have been pretty much phased out.

[dagabu]

Nothing we make will be "articles pyrotechnic". Thats the classification given to essentially professional or technical use class C, and still has testing and qualifications to go through. This is the class that Estes motors are in. Getting this qualification instead of display fireworks or whatever the technical name for general class C pyro gives the devices different shipping and storage requirements.

 

Understood Mum, this was part of the letter I received in reply to my question about motors before the law change (and subsequent change back) in 2006 in dealing with any homemade pyrotechnic device. There has to be a reference of some kind for all items when they submit paperwork and the Agent I spoke with told me that UN 0430 was often used as a catch all by both the DOT and ATF for reporting.

 

The point is that all homemade devices of a pyrotechnic nature are subject to local, state and federal laws.

 

-dag

[LehighValleyPyro]

"Not so, according to letters received by others and clarifications made at PGI 2010, even adding a BP slurry to the end of visco fuse is "treated as if it were 1.3g". Say what you will but any modification makes it AT LEAST 1.3g if not 1.1. Split hairs if you wish but please do not paint a picture that of a 1.4 type item, without an EX number, it MAY be treated as Infernal Machine or at least as a regulated explosive and can carry a class-d felony at minimum if transported without license. "

I thought I was making more of a statement about what it ISN'T. I never said it was 1.4.

Anyway, I think it's a good discussion. I like to have as firm a grasp on the rules as possible. So yeah, Dag, any clarification you can provide would be great!

Mum's right, too. Unless you're building devices and transporting for commerce, it doesn't really matter since you don't need to use the placards anyway

[dagabu]

Mum's right, too. Unless you're building devices and transporting for commerce, it doesn't really matter since you don't need to use the placards anyway

 

True that! Ain't it grand to be a hobbyist?

 

-dag