nater Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 For those in the U.S. where are you purchasing good virgin kraft paper? Or are you making do with the recycled kind that is much easier to find? So far, I have been making do with recycled kraft from grocery bags, but it falls apart easy when pasted.
stckmndn Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Berlau. Once you use the real thing you'll never go back. The results are night and day. Expensive, yes, but necessary.
stckmndn Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 For 3" shells and headers use 4 wraps of 70# virgin kraft. No sleeve. 1" burst canulle with 3fa. Spike with the best flax linen. You'll be shocked at what you can do with just bp burst. It's the old school way.
stckmndn Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 There is a fairly recent pictorial on Pyrobin about a "beer can former". Take advantage of that info. It's common good knowledge.
nater Posted June 16, 2012 Author Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Berlau was the one place I found it available by the roll, but I have heard mixed reviews about them. Some people report that they have recieved recycled kraft instead of virgin. I want 18" rolls in 30, 60, and 90 lbs. I can get 30 and 60 from them for $70 shipped, a little expensive, but a roll should last me quite a long time. Finding heavier paper is tougher. If they sent recycled for that price, I would be upset. Edited June 16, 2012 by nater
dagabu Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Nate, I found an email in my junk folder about virgin kraft from you recently. I can get 18" rolls for you but I have to get a quote since most of the rolls I will be getting will be 24" or 48" since Fulcanelli calls out 24" strips for shell wrapping. I like the 18 rolls but most of the time the grain is running the wrong way and for critical parts, this can be tragic. I have room for a dozen rolls (24") to PGI in August. -dag
nater Posted June 16, 2012 Author Posted June 16, 2012 well, i am certainly open to 24" rolls if the grain is running the right way. I have not bought cutters yet, so I am not locked into a size.
Mumbles Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 I have 24" rolls likely from the same source Dag gets them from, and love them. Very good wet strength almost to the point of being annoying. With the paper wet from the paste, it can be challenging to tear through multiple layers at times. If there was a heartland shoot between now and PGI, I'd offer to bring some over to let you check out. I'm planning on bringing my rolls back with me some day. I have a lot of casings to roll.
dagabu Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 well, i am certainly open to 24" rolls if the grain is running the right way. I have not bought cutters yet, so I am not locked into a size. The grain always runs in the direction of the roll, its a matter of production methods. In order to get a 24" strip with the grain running across it, you need to have a 24" roll and so on. @Mumbles, I do believe you are correct, I think we both have the same paper. -dag
nater Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 The grain always runs in the direction of the roll, its a matter of production methods. In order to get a 24" strip with the grain running across it, you need to have a 24" roll and so on. @Mumbles, I do believe you are correct, I think we both have the same paper. -dag 24" rolls it is then. If you would send me a quote for 30, 60, and 90 lb rolls, I would greatly appreciate it. I just hope I don't have to make 2 trips home from LaPorte! Mumbles, thanks for the offer. Sounds like this paper has just the qualities I am looking for. I want to wet-roll the rocket headers I have been working on to make a stronger case, and the paper I have falls apart when you spread paste on it. We don't have any more HPA shoots planned until PGI. We're doing a small show for the Mentone airport's annual fly-in the weekend before PGI, but I have to work that night. We took July off for obvious reasons.
Mumbles Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 If you need something between now and PGI, you might want to go to an office supply store or hardware store and look for the rolls of kraft paper there. I think they're about 36" wide and maybe 30 feet long. They are recycled, but seem to be fairly good quality still. I've used it wet before, and it does seem to hold together alright. Paper grocery bags seem to be about as low quality as it comes.
nater Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 The only type of kraft I was able to find locally was postal wrap, but I will keep looking. It holds paste okay, but is still a bit thin for my needs. I have heard about people having good luck using leaf bags, but I haven't tried it myself yet. My dad is a graphic designer for a local printer. When I was at his house today, he gave me some scraps from his office to try out. He said they very rarely receive virgin paper anymore, but I can have whatever is in their scrap bins for free. I might have to check with the resident printing expert on Passfire to see if there is anything specific I should look for. They sometimes have chipboard scraps from making tablet backings, some paper used to protect press plates that is a little thicker than posterboard that I think will make excellent shell casing liners, and some tracing paper which is like a slightly heavier tissue paper.
dagabu Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Very good wet strength almost to the point of being annoying. With the paper wet from the paste, it can be challenging to tear through multiple layers at times. I find that the virgin kraft also takes a very long time to whet in. I have even left it overnight booked up so that all the cream colored kraft was whetted. Do you find this to be an issue too Mum? 24" rolls it is then. If you would send me a quote for 30, 60, and 90 lb rolls, I would greatly appreciate it. I need a few rolls too, give me a week to get the quote back, they are pretty slow with their emails. I want to wet-roll the rocket headers I have been working on to make a stronger case, and the paper I have falls apart when you spread paste on it. The only type of kraft I was able to find locally was postal wrap, but I will keep looking. Uline has kraft sheets that seem to work OK when pasted, they do not have the really thick kraft though.
nater Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 I need a few rolls too, give me a week to get the quote back, they are pretty slow with their emails. Perfect, thanks!
Mumbles Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I haven't had a lot of trouble getting it to break in. I'm normally pasting several shells at once. By the time I have the last sheet broken in, the first are normally pretty good. I tend to crumple it up into a ball first before doing any folds or books or anything just to get some of the fibers good and broken. I also really slather paste on the folded paper so that it always has more than it needs. Any extra at the end just gets scraped off. I had problems for a while that the paper would dry out too much while it was soaking. For inserts and stuff that are only maybe 2.5x6" long I just crumple it into a ball slathered in paste.
dagabu Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I haven't had a lot of trouble getting it to break in. I'm normally pasting several shells at once. By the time I have the last sheet broken in, the first are normally pretty good. I tend to crumple it up into a ball first before doing any folds or books or anything just to get some of the fibers good and broken. I also really slather paste on the folded paper so that it always has more than it needs. Any extra at the end just gets scraped off. I had problems for a while that the paper would dry out too much while it was soaking. For inserts and stuff that are only maybe 2.5x6" long I just crumple it into a ball slathered in paste. I was doing a whole bunch of two break 4" shells and had a good 20# slab of paper and paste whetting in, I don't break it until it is pasted so maybe the next time I do so I should break it dry first and then bucket-dump it in paste then book it? -dag
Mumbles Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Sorry, I meant I crumple it and break it after it has been wet with paste. I lay it out on my table, spread paste over both sides, and then go about breaking it in.
dagabu Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Sorry, I meant I crumple it and break it after it has been wet with paste. I lay it out on my table, spread paste over both sides, and then go about breaking it in. Ahhhhhh, me too, the very same method. I am using #70 for the cases so I wonder if it is just the thickness? The #30 over wrap whets in fine. -dag
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