Lurker here, lots of questions :)

[technophiliac]

First off, let me introduce myself

 

Hi, I'm Jon (Technophiliac.) I'm a hobbyist who loves to dabble in areas that are FUN! But, I still have some main hobbies. I'm a very strict planner, overly cautious, and extremely patient.

I got into this hobby by breaking apart, and recreating larger fireworks at a young age. As I grew older, I never really thought about it much until I made my first very small salute. It was very dangerous, created from flash powder, and I broke just about every rule in the book creating/storing/igniting it. But once that little device went off, I knew I was hooked on this hobby. I've been trying to scrape info together to get started on this hobby, but it's pretty hard to learn, when you can't get your mind off having your questions answered. That's why I'm very grateful for communities such as APC. I'm a member in a few forums, and started climbing the ranks in one, but I mainly keep other hobbies on the down-low and only pursue what I enjoy.

 

 

I've spent about one week, reading for 5-8 hours a day about pyrotechnics, and I am absolutely thrilled to get started (even turbopyro) My main interest will be smaller, more fun things like small salutes, 1" mortar shells, smoke "bombs" etc. And eventually I want to make my way up to 4" shells (anything beyond that, and I am too paranoid at this point.) but even a 4" is absolutely deadly. I don't really want to start out with starter kits, as I would much rather have a stock to pull from, so that I can use it for general uses. So, with that being said, I might be off & on, dropping in to learn, chat and ask questions. But when I get all the safety/beginner gear, I will become a whole lot more active.

 

Now onto my questions

 

For the lift charges, I want to use piece of tube, and cut/glue it to the base of the mortar shell. but I'm confused how to figure out what size for which shell to use? Like what size for 1" shells, 2", 3" 4" etc.... I know the lift ratio, but I'm just confused with size... You wouldn't want a 1" tube on a 8" shell y'know?

 

Also, storage. I was reading up on our states codes, and some tips from guides/forums about storage, but most of it was large-scale, and not really for DIY pyros. I was thinking of having a truck tool box to store the chems in, and not combine reactive chems (how would I do this? Would I need a seperate box?)

 

How does a pyro live in cramped spaces? I will probably be getting an apartment by next year, and I am worried about having ANY pyro stuff in a building. If it was a house, I would keep it in a shed or something....

 

Also, how do you ground yourself, and your work table? I know simply touching a piece of uncovered metal will equalize your charge, but how on earth would you ground a wooden work table? (a tip I read on safety for making flash ((when I feel ready))

 

What are some good recipes for FP? Now, before you go telling me beginners shouldn't even touch FP, I SWEAR I won't even think about it! I'm a little worried about aluminum randomly combusting, and potassium perchlorate seems a little difficult to make (small amount for the time taken.)

I honestly don't like FP, simply because of it's instability. But Eventually, once I start getting really established in becoming a pyro, I might consider starting with Ultra-small things, like 1" poppers or something. and move up to salutes.

 

What is a good charcoal for lift powder? I hear people swear by willow/balsa/poplar, and I am thinking willow would be the easiest for me to obtain at this point.

 

What sizes of media should I use in a ball mill? I know there isn't really a right, or wrong answer, I;m just curious if it's better to use a combo, or just large media alone.

 

For a mortar base, what's wrong with concrete? I'm not really interested in doing shows, I'm more into long-lasting re loadable mortars, and for the sake of safety/not tipping over, wouldn't it be wise to have the HDPE pipes mounted in a 5gallon bucket of concrete?

 

What's the difference between paper, and plastic caps in a salute? I'm assuming paper is quieter, but safer/more symmetrical & biodegradable

 

I'm not a fan of lead media...It is really sweet, but I'm not a favor of any lead contaminates whatsoever. Stainless steel, and Brass are what I will most likely be using, and I was just wondering, What are these two NOT compatible with? I've heard about sometimes switching media material because the powders that degrade off the media mixed with the solution and caused a spontaneous combustion etc....I will most likely be sticking to tigertail mortars for a while, but I will eventually move up to more advanced creations/comps.

 

I will most likely be getting this ball mill, or a similar one: http://goo.gl/clUYr I want to build a small, plywood box, but I'm worried about it overheating from the lack of airflow. Is this an issue?

 

Does anybody have a link (preferably ebay) that sells 1-5lbs+ of a good charcoal powder? I can make my own, but I don't see the point unless you are a hardcore pyro...

 

And last, but not least, fuse. Why do shells use QM, and not standard visco? And could visco be used as a replacement? I'm going to buy a ridiculous amount of visco, purely because I have always had some kind of fetish with them. (probably because they are relatively safe lol!)

 

 

I still have tons to learn, and I spend an absurd amount of time on APC, because of the gold mine of info available. Thanks for reading my book Also, if you have to take extra time to reply, that's ok. I want to learn as much as I possibly can, so If you write a book on one question, I will most likely read it all. Thanks!

 

~technophiliac

[warthog]

The short and sad story for you Jon is it will not be legal for you to do pyro in an apartment setting period.

 

You will need to find yourself a friend who has property in the country who is willing to allow you to do this there or you can also look around for a club that does this stuff and join it.

 

Other than these things, the rest of your questions are moot. It can't be done legally in your situation at all unless you manage to do one of those two things above.

 

Believe me, I wish it were different too. I live in a subdivision and it is illegal for me as well. It was working out for me to work out in the country with a buddy but things change. Now I am out on my ear and looking again for a way to get right. I am trying to scrape together enough money to buy a few acres so I can get licensed and then I will no longer have to depend on the largesse of others because at least around me, it doesn't really exist.

[nater]

Warthog is a little off about apartment dwelling. Look for a club in your area and join it. You can build small devices and fire them on site, at club events. Storing completed devices and completed comps in an apartment is a bad idea, and at best could violate your lease.

 

Be safe, but look hard for a club so you can learn right.

[nater]

Shells use QM for several reasons. Cost is one, timing is the other. QM match provides nearly instant ignition and is cheap to make in long lengths. Visco will work, especially for small shells.

 

Don't use plastic, especially in salutes. Nobody likes plastic shards raining down on them at shoots.

 

Anchor your HDPE in something replaceable. You will blow up a mortar at one point, so make it easy to replace. If you don't want to make a wood rack, you can dig a hole and bury the mortar, use buckets with sand in them, or use a stake. Make sure the mortars have good plugs too.

[technophiliac]

The short and sad story for you Jon is it will not be legal for you to do pyro in an apartment setting period.

 

You will need to find yourself a friend who has property in the country who is willing to allow you to do this there or you can also look around for a club that does this stuff and join it.

 

Other than these things, the rest of your questions are moot. It can't be done legally in your situation at all unless you manage to do one of those two things above.

 

Believe me, I wish it were different too. I live in a subdivision and it is illegal for me as well. It was working out for me to work out in the country with a buddy but things change. Now I am out on my ear and looking again for a way to get right. I am trying to scrape together enough money to buy a few acres so I can get licensed and then I will no longer have to depend on the largesse of others because at least around me, it doesn't really exist.

 

 

 

That's what I thought. I never really liked the idea of it anyways, and I was wondering if there was any alternatives.

I have a friend who lives in the country, and I'm sure he would let me store stuff If I bought a shed, and a lock or something. Mind you know, I will be moving a year from now, and I can probably just convince some old country-living friends up there to let me build a shed in on their land or something.

 

 

 

Warthog is a little off about apartment dwelling. Look for a club in your area and join it. You can build small devices and fire them on site, at club events. Storing completed devices and completed comps in an apartment is a bad idea, and at best could violate your lease.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">Be safe, but look hard for a club so you can learn right.

 

I'm not so much interested in BUILDING them in, or around a house. Storing either for that matter.

I like to do everything out, in a separate building, so if any accidents happen, the losses/damage is minimal.

The nearest club is about 3 hours away, and luckily I will be moving back there next year. I'm more interested in learning, and listening at this point.

 

Don't use plastic, especially in salutes. Nobody likes plastic shards raining down on them at shoots. <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">

Anchor your HDPE in something replaceable. You will blow up a mortar at one point, so make it easy to replace. If you don't want to make a wood rack, you can dig a hole and bury the mortar, use buckets with sand in them, or use a stake. Make sure the mortars have good plugs too.

 

Yeah, that is what I assumed. I'm a pretty big paper fan, and I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something.

What do you think about mounting them in 5gal buckets of sand? I literally have millions of gallons of sand behind my house, so I'm trying to save $ when it's not necessary.

/w wabout my other questions?

 

 

1. Are aluminum tradesman truck boxes ok for storing things?

2. If I were to store chemicals in the same box. Being that some of it will be airfloat, is there a possibility of the chems mixing, and having the potential to combust, or combusting on it's own?

3. For making sensitive comps, alot of members recommend grounding "Yourself" and your work table to avoid accidents from static electricity. How would I go about doing this?

4. When making aerial shells, how do you generally tell how large the lift tubing should be (The part that holds the lift charge) like for 1", 2", 3", or 4" shells?

5. When you start creating alternate recipes, does that = less effective solutions? Like I've heard two, or three different ways to make FP, and I'm just curious if they all go off similar, or if there is a major difference in between.

6. What size media should I use in my ball mill? Is a combination better than just larger media? or vice versa.

7. For sound dampening and slight explosion-reduction reasons, I want to make a plywood box to encase my ball-mill in. Would this make it overheat from the lack of airflow, and more dangerous? ( http://www.cannonfus...-Mill-4p266.htm )

8. Are there any comps that do NOT agree with brass, or SST media? Just want to make sure I'm not doing something like Sodium Bicarbonate & an acid.....

9. What is a good charcoal base for lift powder? I will most likely be using willow, but some people swear by poplar, and I've even heard someone who uses redwood (That doesn't sound very effective.)

10.

Shells use QM for several reasons. Cost is one, timing is the other. QM match provides nearly instant ignition and is cheap to make in long lengths. Visco will work, especially for small shells.

Do you mean inexpensive to make myself? Because from what I've seen, QM is about 8 without tax & ship for 65 ft, and chinese visco is 8.25 for 100ft.? Edited May 14, 2012 by technophiliac

[Mumbles]

I would agree with the apartment statements. I wouldn't feel comfortable building in a dwelling in which I lived, much less where a number of others live. There are some non-hazardous tasks you can do at home though like rolling tubes and casings, or cutting strips for pasting, tying buckets, etc. Well they're non-hazardous until a significant other or house mate finds that you've coated the kitchen table in wheat paste. After that all bets are off. Clubs are great. I regularly drove 3hr for club meets for a number of years, and now do significantly more as the locations change with the club closest to me now. It gives you a safe spot to test things at the very least, not to mention the camaraderie and knowledge shared.

 

My prefered method of securing mortars is always to bury them. I have used 5 gallon buckets full of sand or clay for smaller shells though. I try to keep at minimum 1/2 to 2/3 of the mortar barricaded by earth or sand of some sort. If you join a club, most will have guns for you set up.

 

There are really no real regulations as far as storage of chemicals. Powders will float out and probably mix slightly. This is where cleanliness and good housekeeping come in. If you regularly clean your work area, there wont be a lot of worry. A wipe down with a wet cloth will do wonders and cover most of your cleaning. Some like to do a top to bottom thorough cleaning once or twice a year, which I can really recommend. Something that is lockable would be great for storing chemicals. I'd probably try to avoid fuels and oxidizers in the same container if at all possible. If you could get some sort of lockable shed or building, I would just keep the different fuels and oxidizers on different shelves, or in different plastic totes or something. You don't necessarily need to religiously separate everything, but there are of course some serious incompatibilities with a few chemicals. A lot of people have to make a choice whether to use chlorates or ammonium perchlorate for instance. I wouldn't keep them in the same room if I could help it. For storing flammable materials and end products a lot of people seem to like using steel Job boxes that are lined with wood. There are official regulations for the preparation of magazines that can be found by getting a copy of the Orange Book. You basically want something that can be secured, and then line or block all spark producing surfaces.

 

Grounding yourself and work area is done to prevent static sparks. There are other methods you can use. The best method is to use common sense. Humidity bleeds away static and prevents buildup. Thus don't work with sensitive materials in low humidity environments. There is a product called static guard used for removing static from clothing. I will typically spray myself and my tools down with this before working with anything even mildly static sensitive. Reapply every so often or when you leave the area. There are grounding straps, static dissipating shoes and mats as well. I'm really unsure how well these work for what we do. Even in industrial pyrotechnic manufacturing environment, they're not in heavy use. They are used in other industries like paint and coatings where there are a lot of flammable vapors and fumes around though.

 

I don't know what to tell you about the ball mill thing really. You could probably barricade it with sandbags or something to reduce damage and noise, while maintaining air circulation. It's easier to do with a mill you make yourself. This way you can separate the motor from the milling jars, and thus only barricade the jars to dampen the noise. The motor can be in a separate area that gets better airflow. I've never tried to contain one of the mills you posted a link to, so I don't know how much they'd heat up. Mine of a similar style did have a small fan on it to circulate air over the motor to keep the heat down though.

[nater]

Yes, I meant to make or buy locally. QM cannot be shipped reasonably as well. Another advantage of the club is being able to pick up supplies on site. Like I said, you can use visco it will work just fine. You might want to prime the give fire end so it throws a bigger flame, but it will light the lift.

 

For lift charge, cups and cones are just asthetics. The amount of lift depends on the power of the bp, and the weight of the shell. You can even drill a hole just above the plug in the mortar, fuse it, dump the right amount of lift in the drop the shell on top if you like. I wouldnt recommend it, but it will work. plastic baggies work well to hold the lift too.

[warthog]

I was off? How? I said find a club or someone in the country in order to do this legally. I can't see where I was off.

 

It was what you said too.

 

Anyway, there is a lot of good info added after what I said as well. I wasn't telling you it can't be done at all, just that you can't do it without help from someone else or a club or moving.

[nater]

I must have missed the find a club sentance, sorry. I meant is us apartment dwellers can continue this hobby, thanks to the local clubs.

[technophiliac]

Something that is lockable would be great for storing chemicals. If you could get some sort of lockable shed or building, I would just keep the different fuels and oxidizers on different shelves, or in different plastic totes or something.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking about just using separate work boxes stored on different shelves in a locked shed

 

 

 

I don't know what to tell you about the ball mill thing really. You could probably barricade it with sandbags or something to reduce damage and noise, while maintaining air circulation.

I was already going to use sand bags, and that's isn't really a worry. I'm just worried about putting it in a box without good heat dissipation, or air flow. I saw a video of someones drying racks that erupted, even with a fan. So a motor creating heat would probably be worse, and more of a danger.

 

 

For lift charge, cups and cones are just asthetics. The amount of lift depends on the power of the bp, and the weight of the shell. You can even drill a hole just above the plug in the mortar, fuse it, dump the right amount of lift in the drop the shell on top if you like. I wouldnt recommend it, but it will work. plastic baggies work well to hold the lift too.

 

This makes soo much sense. And I think I'll just get a variety. You never know when you need a tube

 

 

 

So now I only have a few questions left,

 

I heard someone say that brown kraft paper bags should be used to store comps in. Is this good advice? And what would be a good outer container to put the bags in? Would plastic ziploc containers be an issue? especially with Static.

 

When you start creating alternate recipes, does that = less effective solutions? Like I've heard two, or three different ways to make FP, and I'm just curious if they all go off similar, or if there is a major difference in between.

 

What would a good charcoal base for lift be? I've heard some peope swear by balsa, or poplar, simply because of how soft they are, and how they erupt so quickly.

Also, what kind of a base would hard woods make? Better for breaks? When I decide it's time to make BP, I will find a good spot to find some fallen brush/trees, and I want to know what kind of trees to be on the lookout for.

So far, I'm pretty in love with willow. But they aren't exactly flourishing in my city.

Edited May 14, 2012 by technophiliac

[warthog]

For chemical storage consider 5 to 7 gallon buckets fitted with Gamma-Seals. I use them myself. Unless you are worried about small children and such, a lock on the chemicals isn't needed. I store the chemicals I use most in their own bucket with a plastic liner bag along with its own scoop and a few bags of desiccants. Chemicals I keep only in smaller amounts, say from a few pounds down to less than a pound I keep in their own little tupperware type tub with an inner ziplock baggie and spoon for taking the stuff out as needed. These than get stacked into a bucket with a gamma-seal and desiccant packets. The reason to keep each chemical along with its own scoop or spoon used solely for that chemical is to prevent cross contamination between the chemicals. If you live in a dry climate, desiccants are probably not needed.

 

Storing the finished materials are a completely different thing. Do you have a copy of the "Orange Book" yet? If not download one or ask to have one sent to you by calling the BATFE. They are free. It is also wise to contact the local fire marshall in charge of the area where this will go on, made, stored and fired, to be sure there aren't any pesky local laws you ned to be aware of and take care to follow.

 

Static can be dealt with by making the air a bit more humid among other methods like wearing antistatic shoes, clothing and grounding your hands. At least for me, where I live and with my storage methods, static hasn't been a problem I worry much about but I certainly am aware of it rather than feeling safe and ignoring it. It is also important not to let over-caution cripple the fun of doing this which is not to say be reckless and ignore safety issues. I like to say, use Common Sense but these days it doesn't seem as common as it once seems to have been.

 

Good charcoals, willow is what I favor for lift and I use balsa coated on rice hulls for burst. Of course each of use use what we like best and none of us is right or wrong for doing so. There is also the idea of using different types of burst for different sizes of shell (ball shells at least, ask Mumbles for more on Cylinder Shells) as well as coating cotton seed, grass seed, cereal, hamster bedding and whatever else you might think will take and hold a coating of BP and work out for you situation. Hardwood charcoal has its uses too, in fact what you buy from pyrochem supply houses is usually made from mixed hardwoods. It make serviceable B that can be used for lift and burst too, I used just that when I first started out in fact which really wasn't that long ago, last May in fact.

Edited May 15, 2012 by warthog

[warthog]

Oh, plastic. It is a lot easier to learn some basics and get your feet wet with plastic hemis and cans. I started with them. I don't feel like I was too hard on ole Mother Earth for doing it either. I can usually find most of the wreckage and pick it up. Black powder impregnated paper isn't all that great when it comes to decomposition either, the bonus it has, it flies on the wind so the neighbor has to deal with it. The chemicals used in stars and such are also pretty toxic, at least some are and if the concern is for the environment then just don't make fireworks. The Earth will thank you. Me, I know full well that the ole Mom is a lot tougher than people think and will be here and full of life long after we have died out and been lost from memory. (Unless you believe in God as I do and think the Word is true, again as I do, then Earth & man will still be fine in the End. It just happens a little differently that we all die out and the earth goes on...)

 

As far raining down on you, consider e-firing and not being in the fall out area as much. You also get a lot better view of all your hard work and it is a lot easier to video that way too.

 

BTW, that same "mill" can be had a a Harbor Freight store if there is a local one and it is not only cheaper but there will be no shipping. Of course there will be state and local tax but you have to decide which is the better route for you. I bought mine at Harbor Freight and now use t just to mill my chemicals like Barium and Strontium Nitrates so that I can change them from granular to a nice, fine dust. I use lead media to make my BP and ceramic media to mill my chemicals. I use ceramic for those because I like them to stay nice and white rather than get a little gray from the lead. I am also fond of pure chemicals as much as I am able to buy and keep them that way so I can make the nicest colors. Mostly thogh it os beaus I like these to stay white.

 

Lead though is just fine with me for black powder making and for milling some star comp partial mixes like glitters. I have made them both ways and frankly cant tell the difference in the BP nor in the way the comps perform due to the slight lead contamination. It isn't all that evil, it was in the paint in my school when I was a tot and the pencil most of the other kids chewed on all day also were painted with lead paint and most of them are fine. I never could figure out what made them chew on the pencils though so I never did it myself, now paste eating... that is a whole different story. (just kidding) See my feelings about ole Ma Earth for more about why I use lead.

Edited May 15, 2012 by warthog