dagabu Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I dunno. I'm an unlicensed hobbyist, and the first thing I did was contact all the relevant AHJs and let them know what I was doing - including police, fire marshal, local authorities, my insurance company, etc. They were all a bit taken aback to find the ATFE doesn't require a license for some activities, but once I showed them the relevant regs they shrugged and said "Oh. OK" Oh, and the insurance company raised the rate on my umbrella policy by $80/year. Flying under the radar puts you into crash mode.... Kevin Unfortunately, that is not the case in most states. In Minnesota for example, the state has more restrictive laws that override the ATF rules and local regulations limit freedoms even more. There is no way I would suggest such a call to the AHJ's here, you will go away for a long time. Getting a license is relatively easy, get the distances, get a mag, take and pass the PGI shooters Cert course (Really, the state recognizes this as adequate training) and apply for your license with the ATF. The most important part is to have NO chems, stars, shells, no fireworks at home or on the mag site. They all go into the mag AFTER you are licensed, not before. -dag
Nessalco Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Dag, We don't disagree. If I lived in a location where getting a license was the only option, I'd pursue the license, not attempt to fly under the radar. I'm fortunate that it is not the case here, and I can operate openly. I was unaware of the 'don't have anything in the mag or on hand' issue. I had wondered how that transition took place, during those moments when I actually consider pursuing a tag. Kevin
dagabu Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Dag, We don't disagree. If I lived in a location where getting a license was the only option, I'd pursue the license, not attempt to fly under the radar. I'm fortunate that it is not the case here, and I can operate openly. I was unaware of the 'don't have anything in the mag or on hand' issue. I had wondered how that transition took place, during those moments when I actually consider pursuing a tag. Kevin Sorry if that came off as an argument, face to face I smile a lot but here I sound like a real grump! If you don't have any issues with the local AJH then having all your stuff in the mag when the agent arrives is fine as long as you have a log ready and are following the orange book. The suggestion to have an empty mag is much more for the local LEOs to see that you have not been trying to pull one over on them because if you have not been issued the licence, you don't have a license... Good for you to be able to do so, i am sure we all are a little jealous. -dag
Richtee Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Guess I din't see this 50... glad it was not a huge hassle for ya. I had my turn a couple years back as you recall... nothing serious...but at the time OMG!
a_bab Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Richtee, in fact you saw this some 3 months ago: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7257-about-my-case-with-the-cops/page__p__95294#entry95294 I know I know, the age...
Richtee Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Richtee, in fact you saw this some 3 months ago: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7257-about-my-case-with-the-cops/page__p__95294#entry95294 I know I know, the age... Heh... yeah... and the panic. I'll never forget MY day. OMG. Thanks for helpin' an old guy out...hehehe...
50AE Posted February 6, 2013 Author Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Today I was called by the internal affairs headquaters about the same case. What they did is not interrogate me, but let me in the "mirror" chamber, me holding a number amont three others, to be recognized by someone on the other side of the "mirror". I knew something was not usual, because the other guys seemed to be collegues of the cops, just having the similar height as me, for the protocol. After this, I signed a document where the person behing the mirror claimed - Yes, I recognize number two (me) as the one from whom I got the chemicals and black powder... I was concerned, so I called the inspector afterwards to ask her if my case is getting complicated, if I'm in trouble and if probably I would need a lawyer. She told me not so, but she will call me if anything changes. It seems I'm still considered as a witness. I hope it doesn't get very much complicated. I have a connection or two I might use if stuff does get nasty. Edited February 6, 2013 by 50AE
marks265 Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 I am curious as to why you would be asked to sign a paper that you were recognized as the seller. If that's the case I would want to see the person who identified you before you signed. If anything the person who identified you should sign a paper not the other way around. Interesting situation.
50AE Posted February 7, 2013 Author Posted February 7, 2013 It was not only my signature, but his and the other participants. I thing there were 6 signatures total.
dynomike1 Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 Remember Marks there laws are different than ours.
marks265 Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 Remember Marks there laws are different than ours. I understood that part and is why I asked. I was trying to get a feel for how other countries handle these things compared to the USA. Some of the people who whine in jail here I would like to hear from where there sitting in jail across the big pond somewhere. Sounds like the police where trying to get a signed collaboration from all players to close the deal. If they catch them in lies they may let you off and nail them. Cops don't find any pleasure in hearing flat out garbage stories. They see it as a major insult even in small time cases such as this. Good Luck to you 50AE. I hope it works out OK. Mark
taiwanluthiers Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 At the same time police/judges in other countries aren't as eager to put people in jail as they are in the US. You don't normally go to jail unless you did something really bad, but for some reason the US has the highest incarcerated population per capita in the world.
MrB Posted February 10, 2013 Posted February 10, 2013 In some parts of the world you can get convicted of having made & stored 200-300g worth of TATP in a flat in the middle of the city, have had the cops rifle through your chems storage during the investigation and not really taking anything, from legal chems to illegal compositions all clearly labeled, (which ended with the TATP blowing up on a city street, while they tried to safely get rid of it) and end up with a slap on the wrist, and getting notes about illegal weapons possession, (knife, a so called butterfly, which are/were illegal here) illegal firearms possession, (a single worldwar two 9mm round) and "reckless endangerment" or what ever it would be translated as. Yeah, it's about 15 years ago, i got convicted, got a probational 1 year sentence, where i was required to meet with a lady, at first once a week, and by the end just once a month, for a free lunch, or a cup of coffee. Still got the knife, but they did take my documentation & notes. At the time it was pretty much Internet printouts, and pathetic incoherent scribbles of my own experiences. I suspect the only reason they took it was due to the notes about the TATP. Oddly enough... They didn't take the chems for making TATP. Did i talk to them? Oh you bet. If they ever had a question, i answered it, truthfully. I can't say i volunteered any information until at the trial, where they spent quite a bit of time trying to dissect the way i made the TATP. For obvious reasons the prosecutor wanted 8-12 years in jail, but the cop/bomb-tech who blew him self up with my TATP was a good, honest witness, and "took the blame" for it ever going of. "Unclear communications between him and his younger partner" caused mistakes in the process of burning the TATP with alcohol as a decelerator. If ever i have been lucky that i am a "good speaker" and not to worried about speaking to, and in-front of people i don't know, that was the time. I guess that made a big difference. Of course, i admitted to being guilty, but the legal-system here in Sweden doesn't work quite the way it does in the US. For some reason i'm still not allowed to travel in to the US. Odd how that works.B!
taiwanluthiers Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) You can be prohibited from traveling to the US just for farting at the wrong person... seriously they are that paranoid. I do not know about the EU but I think making TATP in Taiwan is a pretty serious offense, but that depends if you were making a "destructive device" (ie. intending to cause harm or simple curiosity) as the law doesn't really consider any substance an explosive but it is based more on intended use. I heard someone got in trouble with TATP when he gave it to a friend and it blew off his hands, but I do not know what kind of sentence he received from it. I don't think it should be much though. I think the US is so eager to put people behind bars for a long time because it's literally a multi-billion dollar business. There are private prisons making money off of the government. The Sweden bit doesn't surprise me... you go to jail for 10 years for murdering someone there. Edited February 13, 2013 by taiwanluthiers
MrB Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Well, here, as everywhere, intent is the critical point. And i was doing fireworks and firecrackers already back then. Perhaps a bit over the top to use TATP at firecrackers and salutes, but it was working (very) well. The letter of the law is very strict, but then you end up infront of a judge, and what pretty much is a pair of civilians who together have to decide if to convict, and if so, what to do with you. "tingsrättens" verdicts are pretty much jokes, one day going very easy on someone, and the next day throwing the book at someone for the same thing. The short sentences for stuff like murder is easy to explain tho. In Sweden jail isn't used for storage, but rehabilitation. If you kill someone your (to some extent) sick, and needs to be treated. Once thats done, your just costing money, sitting there. With that reasoning it's no wonder why someone cheating with taxes gets a harder punishment then a murderer.Oh, and if you cant be rehabilitated, you don't belong in a prison. We got mental care for that. Oddly, lately those have received less and less funding, and more and more people who've been self admitted have found them without help. Guess they have to kill someone to get the help they asked for. Seams brutal. But we are side tracking.B!
taiwanluthiers Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Yea, makes no sense putting someone in jail for so long, its just costing money and prisoners know all they need to do to get a lifelong free room/board is to commit crimes... I wish the USA realize that. A lot of Taiwanese were saying its regrettable what was happening with that guy who killed 70 people because when something like this happens here, the person usually faces the firing squad since the idea is, if he can't be rehabilitated then he should be removed from society so he is no longer a danger. However due to pressure from groups like Amnesty International and the EU, Taiwan has been reluctant to apply the capital punishment... But whenever something makes it to the news they always like to drum up the amount of years the person might be in prison, even though he only got a suspended sentence, if at all.
50AE Posted April 2, 2013 Author Posted April 2, 2013 Oh, I forgot updating the thread, Actually bad news, I hope they don't get worse. I've been summoned a few weeks ago to be attracted as a defendant. I got a lawyer in a hurry and we went there. We didn't say anything about it and we read all documents about the case. I am accused in two crimes - storage and handover of explosive devices. Ater carefully reading everything, I went for registration (took my fingerprints and photos with a number of me) and then went out. I consulted myself with the laywer later. He gave me the tips needed and now I have to wait, if a prosecutor would like to manage the case or drop it. They have the results of the chemical expertise of the confiscated fireworks and chemicals. Very precise analysis, I found it funny they mentioned Fe, Ca, Mg, Zn, Cr, Mn, Ni, Co, in a mix of serpent mix of aluminum powder, iron powder and BP. All I can do now is wait and do the tips the lawyer gave me.
BurritoBandito Posted April 28, 2013 Posted April 28, 2013 Shit, That sucks!!! Hopefully everything will pan out well for you. Good luck broseph.
BurritoBandito Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 50AE, is this case still open? If you are in a position to discuss the outcome I'd be very interested to know what happened. If not, I completely understand. Thanks in advance. 1
50AE Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) I'm going to court on Monday. Wish me luck. I'm not in the mood speaking to anyone and doing anything. I'm only thinking about the trial. Edited December 4, 2014 by 50AE
BurritoBandito Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Well then... Good luck, and I hope all turns out well. I understand that you don't wish to talk about the case, but it would be cool if you just dropped a quick "I'm free" after court just to let us know. Sending lucky pyro mojo your way. May need to sacrifice some virgin kraft paper to appease the gods of pyro.
50AE Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 I will give a reply to all to keep you in touch
MrB Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 From past personal experience... After the trial it feels better, pretty much regardless of the outcome.Best of luck!B!
Recommended Posts