About my case with the cops

[50AE]

It was Thursday 26th. I got up early in the morning and decided to go to lectures. I had a small exam. Nothing special, finished it. I had no more lectures and went out, taking the road back home. Then, I got a message on my cell phone. I knew it was probably someone trying to call me, but because my phone is unavaiable because of unpaid services, I usually get a message of the number of the person who tried to call me.

 

It was my friend who lives next door. He knows very well that my phone is turned off, so I thought it must be something very urgent. It was 13PM. "My home is on fire or something's wrong with pyro", I thought. I took a look in the direction of my home, but saw no smoke, so I calmed myself.

 

I came to the entrance of the building and I saw him, he looked calm but didn't say hi and told me - "Hey, some guys from the MAOCHP (mains anti-organized crime headquaters police) are looking for you. ((not sure if I translate it correctly)).

 

Not for more than a few seconds, a civilian dressed guy called my name and asked me to come. He then introduced himself to me, showing his badge and telling his name. They were two other civillian looking collegues of him. I was invitied to sit down on one of the comfortable chairs in the corridor of the building and we started to talk.

 

(I doubt I recall the whole conversation)

 

Firstly there were common questions like - where do you study.. what year.. how are you doing. Then..

 

-Do you know "Mr. X"?

-Yes, I do.

-Yesterday we caught him with two other guys with chemicals and pyrotechnic devices. According to them, you gave them a bag with chemicals and compositions. So we have the reason to take a look inside your home and take the things that are not ment to be there. Do you have stuff like this at home? (In these few seconds, I had a hell of a heartbeat)

-Yes, I do.

-You have a pyro licence, right?

-Yes, I do.

-Well, you must be aware from the thick paged notebook that there's a rule for storage and it forbids storing this kind of stuff in a home. It just doesn't work. We will have to take it. We are now waiting for the arrival of the bomb squad.

-Why a bombsquad for? It's just simple - I will give the stuff to you, it's so simple.

-No no, we have to call it. You will see, there's special equipment in there, we have a special robot and.. (yeah right )

we also need two witnesses. The first will be your friend, the second will be the security guy.

 

Time passed...

 

During the waiting time, we talked like normal people. We talked about musical tastes, hobbies, common stuff, etc. We talked also about Mr.X and the guys who were caught.

 

Then the other people came - two wearing tight black T shirts from the bombsquad, a... writer of the reports, a common cop (the driver of the bus) and a MFA camera man (UGH!). All of them, uncluding the witnesses were behind me, waiting for me to unlock the door. So I did. And they came inside. I wasn't hiding everything, I showed them what was for them. I had a few bags of fresh screened BP, a few 5" and 3" shells and plenty of chemicals. My ball mill and some tools weren't there, because I mill elsewhere, but most of the chemicals were.

 

They were soo ignorant. The mains guy told me:

 

-Wow. They are so many. We don't want to take everything, just give me the mains chemicals used to make fireworks with.

-They are all used, I said. Every one for different purposes.

-Alright, alright! I ment the main ones, needed, you know, for the mixtures to burn.

 

I started to tell him every chemical.

-Here is, strontium carbonate.

-What it is used for?

-For making the color red.

-Alright, keep it. I don't need that.

-Here is.. calcium carbonate.

-I don't need any carbonates, keep them for yourself. Give me some nitrates.

-Here is.. bentonite

-What's that for?

-Making plugs.

-Keep it.

-Here is.. sodium nitrate.

-Alright, we can have that

Cop2: hey, my granny used to treat saussages with that (laugher).

 

In overall, they mainly took my oxidizers. I eased them by describing every pyro mix I had - red, blue, green stars, rolled or cut, fountain mix, glitter mix and so on.

 

The writer chick had to write quite stuff. The other cops were sitting in the living room and waiting. One of them decided to check my computer. The PYRO folder wasn't hard to spot on the desktop of course. He started to look at videos and pics and the other cops watched with fun. They were nice enough so they didn't want to take my PC. One of the cops started to play video games (he sucked, hehe )

 

Overall, it was a few hours of nightmare. They bagged all the stuff in black bags and "sealed" them with an interesting seal - with hot glue stamp. I had to go with them to the MFA direction. I went there, I was quickly question from a sexy, long leggs, short squirt lady,about the people I met and gave chemicals to, about my hobby and stuff. Then I was released as a "witness". I went back home.

 

The cops were good people. But they were doing their job. Everyone seemed to like me a lot. When we went to the MFA, the cops with me who were meeting their collegues went saying stuff like: "Hey, this guys a fucking genious" ; "Haha, he ridiculised our collegues from the b-squad so badly" ; "You must meet with him, I assure you. He will tell you everything about explosives". .. and so on.

 

I was treated as a regular guy, without any handcuffs or insults towards me.

 

Now all I have to wait is the results from the analysis and I hope everything will be alright.

Edited May 8, 2012 by 50AE

[marks265]

That was a very smart move to tell them and show them what they want. If you get edgy and try to hide something it only gets worse. Sounds to me like you'll do OK. Especially if you're going to school. Usually that's where all your money is tied up so even if they fine you they know you can't afford it. Hopefully it was a big scare tactic.

 

Good Luck to you,

Mark

[pyrokid]

50,

 

 

I hope this turns out well for you. It seems to me that being personable and friendly with the police goes a very long way with them.

[NightHawkInLight]

I think you went the right way 50. They say never to talk to the cops when involved in an investigation, but when dealing with stuff like this they could really ruin your day whether or not you talk. Your best bet is often to be personable and let them know you're an ordinary guy with an interesting hobby, not a crotchety hermit hoarding munitions for when the government attacks. That is of course dependent on the attitude of the officer questioning you. If you get the sense they'll be pulling out handcuffs, whether or not you think you've broken the law, it's probably best to plead the 5th and shut up until you get some legal counsel.

 

In any case I hope it works out well for you, I think it will. Thanks for documenting your encounter for us. May I ask, how were your chemicals stored? Did it look somewhat professional? I haven't made any fireworks in quite some time, but the look of my work space has always been influenced by how I feel it would be viewed by an unwelcome visitor and what sort of impression it would leave. In my current residence I don't have the means to make it look like I really know what I'm doing, which is part of the reason I haven't done anything in so long.

 

On the subject of speaking with the police, here's a video I'm sure many of you have seen, but is worth watching again on a yearly basis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Potassiumchlorate]

I have seen that video before. It's really interesting. If they don't have anything on you, it's certainly best to just shut up.

 

50AE, I hope everything turns out OK for you.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

The video is BS IMO, If you get caught with fireworks, you'll have to convince the police your intensions aren't that bad. If you keep your mouth closed they'll get suspicious and they'll keep you in detention for longer period of time. My advise is to coöperatie and if you can try to hide a few things. I think you did the right thing 50AE.

[Mumbles]

I have to agree somewhat. If you get caught "red handed" as it were, it's probably in your best interest to cooperate and show you're not up to no good and you really only have harmless intentions. This has worked out for me in my few run ins with the law. I will say it is in your best interest not to volunteer information. It does seem like you handled it well, and hopefully nothing will come from it.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Yes, if you are caught "red handed", then it would be stupid to lie, of course. In this case I think 50AE did the best he could.

[50AE]

My chemicals were stored in the plastic screw lid containers they usually come from the shop. The pyrotechnic mixtures were all sealed in polyethylene bags. Not much professional looking, but somewhat dirty. The cops had to wash their blackened hands several times

 

I had stopped pyro months before that to happen, so it was not such a pain. It could've been if I was caught in the middle of making fireworks for a show.

 

When the hot chick questioned me, we wrote the report in the following way (I don't recall everything):

The person A.N. (my name) makes fireworks for his own, entertaining purposes. These devices are made of paper, containing a pyrotechnic mixture. The obtained chemicals and toolings are legally bought or obtained and are freely avaible in chemical suppliers. He practices this as a hobby, the same way as many other people internationally..

If I get my hands on the report, I will write more about it.

Edited May 9, 2012 by 50AE

[Potassiumchlorate]

I find it plain stupid that they haunt people for making fireworks. I guess you have lots of burglary, robbery, assault, rape, trafficking etc in Bulgaria. Things like that should be their priority nr. 1.

 

Well, well, cops are the same everywhere.

[optimus]

Glad to hear things are (relatively) OK 50AE, I think you dealt with the situation the best way you could.

 

When I received an early morning visit, I was completely open with them about what I did, and they were invited to come in and inspect my storage. They declined, after quickly realising I was no threat to anyone. I ended up having a nice chat about pyro chemistry with the detectives and they were very supportive and quite interested.

 

It's a shame they don't use this approach more often in these cases, more often than not there's absolutely no need to get the bomb squad involved. Although in my case there was an armed response unit waiting outside in a van just incase it turned out I was a crazy person.

 

Always worth considering how your storage space would look to a LEO, try to keep things tidy!

[a_bab]

Let me write my thoughts about this.

 

Firstly, there is no such things as being legal in the fireworks hobby - there are few exceptions such as some licensed guys from US (with their clubs), and some professionals. Even in these cases, most will break certain laws - being licensed to shoot fireworks is not the same as making them in your shed/garage. This activity is supposed to be strictly controlled, and I find this normal.

Then there is the illusory "100 gram" urban legend from UK - in fact there were quite some cases in which people were caught and they are in real trouble, for merely possessing some rather harmless pyro chems.

 

No country or government would legally agree to have a person be a pyrotechnical guy "at home". There are countless laws depending on the country, mostly about storing/building items, or this activity is simply outlawed.

 

So in reality for the most of us, even if "licensed" making fireworks in generally an illegal activity if done at your home (with the exceptions in US, meaning a full blown storage space with strict rules concerning the fire safety, locks and so on.)

 

This doesn’t deter the certain existence of lifetime pyros, doing this for decades, being careful not to trigger alarms.

 

The factors that could lead to an unpleasant visit are really a few: you either must be reported, or directly seen by the police. Some simple rules that would avoid issues are:

 

-never, ever test items in your neighborhood/courtyard. Even if people know you and your addiction, it can and it will happen that eventually someone tired/bored/fed up will report you. This could also extend to someone you know well, but it will simply report you "just because" (I've seen cased of love relation ship gone bad, broken friendship etc). Basically if you upset someone who knows what you do it's a risk to consider. Be nice!

-stick to strict safety rules. Don't be lazy! Even a small fire will put yourself in the middle of a shitstorm you may not be prepared to handle. It's worse then in the pyro books, safety section: "you have to be prepared all the time for the worst case scenario", that could range from having a tray of stars ignite on you or having shells/flashpowder going off. As a matter of fact you don't need an earth rocking concussion to draw unwanted attention: a rather minor event such as having a small rocket motor ignite accidentally could be seen by your caring neighbor as a fire, then the rest is as they say...history.

-it could happen that you find other people sharing the same hobby in your country, with different skill levels. My advice is to never deal with then unless you really know and them (this means childhood friends/relatives). I’m talking about sharing chems/devices here. If your pyro fellow "falls", you'll be the next. It is very tempting to make this hobby with someone else, but just as any illegal activity it exposes you exponentially. You'll have to be prepared to pay for other people's mistakes, because if he is caught, one of the first questions is "do you know someone else who does the same? We know you do! Where did you get that chem?" etc.

-when acquiring chems, don't do it directly. Have someone you trust AND works in the area do it for you (a chemical company, a licensed pyro etc). If you are smart, you'll be able to find chems rather easily, mostly OTC. Making some of them is a must sometimes. Buying from the Polish web shops is a no-no IMO; we are yet to see the effects of that crazy Norwegian (for unaware people, 2 such shops are now closed, and at least one owner risks 8 years of prison, and the list with all the buyers are in the hand of the authorities).

 

What's the risk? Usually even if you escape prison, you'll have to spend LOTS of money on lawyers, you'll have LOTS of sleepless nights, and you'll likely have everything confiscated (depending on the country).

 

Say you think the risks are worth it, and manage to overcome all the issues (chems, places to test).

Then it all boils down to display them. Usually the only time you can display the fruit of your hard work is certain holydays depending on country, when your fireworks will go unnoticed. More over, it's sometimes once a year.

 

Is it really worth it for you?

[50AE]

Is it really worth it for you?

 

I bet this is a tough one to answer by many. Some will never find an answer, like me.

[Richtee]

Now all I have to wait is the results from the analysis and I hope everything will be alright.

Been there...done that.

 

Ugh.

[californiapyro]

it's worth it to me. it's a passion, a lifestyle. not to mention, being in a club with a legal place helps just my opinion

[Potassiumchlorate]

it's worth it to me. it's a passion, a lifestyle. not to mention, being in a club with a legal place helps just my opinion

 

Seconded.

[spitfire]

After being caught in 2006, (released, no charges..!) i have quite close contact with the local police. They know i am not ''up to no good'' and i am a licenced pyro. They adviced me for ordering and storing materials the right way. It is not strictly according ''the law'' but they know it is limited to a safe amount. I am quite happy with this relationship, i just have to keep in mind not make mistakes like selling/give away chems or pyro devices. Everything i do is for ''investigation purposes''.

[optimus]

After being caught in 2006, (released, no charges..!) i have quite close contact with the local police. They know i am not ''up to no good'' and i am a licenced pyro. They adviced me for ordering and storing materials the right way. It is not strictly according ''the law'' but they know it is limited to a safe amount. I am quite happy with this relationship, i just have to keep in mind not make mistakes like selling/give away chems or pyro devices. Everything i do is for ''investigation purposes''.

 

Sounds like a sensible arrangement, I'm assuming you're in the US?

[50AE]

When I was about to leave, I remember one of the cops telling me.

 

"Glad to have met you. I'm sorry things turned that way, but you see, it was the bad place at the bad time. Everything will turn fine for you, but from now on, you have an earring on your ear. Let this serve your as a lesson. This wouldn't have happened if you didn't know or met those guys. It's a shame scum like them can get good guys like you run into trouble. For the next time, you'd better know your contacts better if having any at all.

 

I wish you everything well. Good day!"

Edited May 11, 2012 by 50AE

[Hardolar]

If you do pyro, you have to do it alone. You can't trust anyone

[Dean411]

I have to say that no matter how close of a friend or even family member you have if the cops have them handcuffed and are telling them if you want to face prison alone that's up to you. There gonna squeal like little pigs it was so and so. Always remember that. When it comes to there freedom they come first and could care less about you or your freedom¡!!!!!

[pdfbq]

I have to say that no matter how close of a friend or even family member you have if the cops have them handcuffed and are telling them if you want to face prison alone that's up to you. There gonna squeal like little pigs it was so and so. Always remember that. When it comes to there freedom they come first and could care less about you or your freedom¡!!!!!

Well... If my friends or family would be handcuffed because of my firework hobby the are allowed to 'squeal' everything that would get them out as SOON as possible.

 

It would be my problem, wouldn't it?

Edited May 14, 2012 by pdfbq

[Dean411]

My comment wasn't a reference to who is or isn't responsible. It was a comment on the human nature of self preservation. Just for instance lets say Mr Y sold chems he wasn't using anymore to Mr Z off of Craigslist Mr Y says there yours now ,you didn't get them from me Mr Z says NO PROBLEM WE NEVER MET! Then Mr Z sets his house on fire accidently and the police say where did you get those chemicals? Do you think Mr Z is going to think twice before saying I BOUGHT THEM FROM MR Y ON CRAIGSLIST.

 

D

[taiwanluthiers]

For the sake of safety (legal or otherwise), don't sell or give away chems to anyone else. You can't be sure what they'll do with it and you will never know if it could end up in the hands of the police if they should do something stupid.

 

There's a reason why many pyro suppliers call themselves a general chemical or material supplier, a lot of pyro chemicals have legitimate use outside of pyrotechnics (for example, sodium chlorate can be used as weedkiller and that is ALWAYS your story if anyone asks why you are buying them)

 

Unfortunately some chemicals like AP leaves little doubt for its use, if possible say experimentation, however you are safe in the US in that regard thanks to the effort of rocketry organizations, but the high level of paranoia in the US cannot be underestimated!

[Nessalco]

I dunno. I'm an unlicensed hobbyist, and the first thing I did was contact all the relevant AHJs and let them know what I was doing - including police, fire marshal, local authorities, my insurance company, etc. They were all a bit taken aback to find the ATFE doesn't require a license for some activities, but once I showed them the relevant regs they shrugged and said "Oh. OK"

 

Oh, and the insurance company raised the rate on my umbrella policy by $80/year.

 

Flying under the radar puts you into crash mode....

 

Kevin