Cherbanov Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 how save is this? "High performance potassium perclorate rocket proppellantinto a suitable ball mill, filled with 200grams of teflon coatedsteel shot of 5 millimeters in diameter, place 380grams of potassium perc, followed by 47,5 g of powdered aluminum, and then followedby 72,5 g of any epoxy resin or amstrongs resin E-301-14, and then tumble the mixture at 150 rpm for about 30 min. thereafter, the mixture is redy for use. press the powdered mixure into any desirablerocket motor, under a pressure of 15000psi, and then cure the in an oven at 170 celsius" 76% Pot Perc, 14,5% Epoxy resin binder, 9,5% Aluminum it sounds to me that this is a flash that is first ballmilled and then pressed cant be good to do that. Is it the epoxy resin thats make this a "Safe / Safer" method? ore is the gay that wrote "PREPARATORY MANUAL OF BLACK POWDER AND PYROTECHNICS" JARED LEDGARD Suicidal can i do this rocket motor without killing myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionTekJackson Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Well, I'm pretty sure it's not a flash, the ratio isn't right for that fast of combustion, its lacking fuel, thats what the epoxy is for. What you can do is measure out the KClO4 and Al, mix them together via diaper method and take a small sample and test burn it without the epoxy. If it "flashes" I'd say it's pretty gaurunteed to be unsafe. Now, I personally wouldn't ball mill the mixture anyway, but I could just be being paranoid. I have made similar comps. like this, just used a different binder. Get the chems finely powdered, and then just mix them in a plastic cup or something. It takes some patience but I feel safer doing that then ball milling finely powdered oxidizers and aluminum together (generally never a good thing to do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 what kind of binder are you using? i dont got any epoxy right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pa_pyro Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I'm pretty sure propellants ike this use lower mesh aluminum, around 200-300 mesh. Probably not flash grade Al. I would still be concerned about the milling part though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionTekJackson Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 what kind of binder are you using? i dont got any epoxy right now. I'm using more experimental binders, such as Polyurethane and Polystyrene. You could look into some silicone based propellants though, Epoxy isn't too hard to get either, I just wanna try and get a working rocket using an extremely simple, easy to obtain binder. pa_pyro Posted on Oct 25 2006, 01:31 PM I'm pretty sure propellants ike this use lower mesh aluminum, around 200-300 mesh. Probably not flash grade Al. I would still be concerned about the milling part though... I actually do use flash quality Al in my composite propellants, mainly for increasing the burn rate. Though for a nicer looking effect you would want a lower mesh, but then again I don't see the point in making composite rockets to attatch them to a stick for pretty looks. Way too much work for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBang Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I have no earthly idea why this mix would be ball milled. It contains a goopey, sticky, rubbery binder that will make your media form a massive dough ball in your mill. Just mix this, adding the Al to the resin, stirring it in THOROUGHLY, then repeating with your KClO4 and curative. Then, you would just cast the composite. I might have missed something here, but "epoxy resin" stricks me as the goop I'm used to, but maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if it turns ouit I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I would never, under any circumstances mill metal powder and perch. I don't care if it's 100 mesh or 3 micron. That's asking for trouble. There is no reason to mill a metal with an oxidizer, they don't need to be pounded into eachother, just very well mixed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 ok thanks fore the respond, i will try to make this without the ballmilling part. maby with Polyurethane or Polystyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionTekJackson Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 ok thanks fore the respond, i will try to make this without the ballmilling part. maby with Polyurethane or PolystyreneJust cuz I said I was using them, doesn't mean they work that well. I have a polystyrene composition that will probly work considering I didn't press the grain right, and it CATO louder than any other fricken CATO I've heard. But it's a pain to make and can't really be cast. An Epoxy propellant can be cast much easier. If you wanna play around with Polyurethane or Polystyrene be my guest, and IM me anytime I'll try and help, who knows you may figure out something I didn't. You can find Epoxy at hardware stores or craft supply stores, like hobby shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 the epoxy? is it the one that are glue, or is it some other kind of epoxy, this is my first one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionTekJackson Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 http://www.epoxyproducts.com/25points4u.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoxy- look under Adhesives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Swede Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 ...a suitable ball mill, filled with 200grams of teflon coated steel shot of 5 millimeters in diameter... Since the instruction tells you to use teflon coated steel balls, there will be a minimum of friction and the epoxi resin will also phlegmatize the preopellant. Even so, this is of course best done behind protective walls! The epoxi is the fuel and the aluminium is most probably as fine as possible to maximize the thrust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 do you think this could work if you mix it and then cast it right away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeAdFX Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Thats not the best way to go. The epoxy in those 2 parter tubes are best suited for home projects and the like(ie fixing stuff). A few years ago I tried making an Ammonium Nitrate and Epoxy composite propellant and it was a bitch. The oxidizer had trouble mixing with the binder and in the end I had a huge glob of shit on top of 50grams of AN. Not to mention those 2 parter things you find at the hardware store have fillers in them. Chances are those fillers are Calcium carbonate. I recommend something else. Find castable epoxy, urethane, PBAN or HTPB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 i have found out that my dealer has got HTPB so I will order some of him and try to make my first high power rocket that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Just had an idea while thinking about blue-tack/PIB/C-4: Considering how low the volatility of both parts of epoxy is, could one not dissolve them in a low-boilling solvent, then take all the time of the world to mix in the perc (and possibly metal) into *both* solutions, spread and let the petrol or whatever evaporate, then kneed together the 2 plastic-like residues? Somewhat like those 2-component, coaxial sticks you cut a piece off and kneed for some time, then it hardens (called liquid steel or something). Just an idea to increase 'pot life' (is that the word?). Plus, you could let the fillers settle in the solvent, then decant, and therefore use just about any 2-part epoxy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherbanov Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Cast resin typ GA: made by GT elektrotechnische Produkte GermanyThe cast resin type GA is a 2-component-polyurethanic-cast resin system and corresponds to DIN VDE 0291 part 2. It is qualified for nominal voltage up to 10 kV.The cast resin will be delivered in a transparent mixing bag. After removing the protection bag and the separator, the 2 components flow together and must be mixed for about 3 minutes. The homogene mixture can be seen by even colouring.----------------------------------- I will try this to my first high power rocket engine, i found it on my work today its free of charge and we got plenty of it to, hope it works.-----------------------------------we also got this: High Gel from 3M 1 bag ofpolybutadiene polymervegetable oilepoxidized vegetable oil bag nr 2 hydrotreated naphthenic distillatespolybutadiene resindidecyl tertiary amine---------------------------------------when the two bags are mixed, the mixture forms a yellow gel. may this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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