DIY audio

[50AE]

I'm curious to know if someone else shares the sames hobby. It's my main one now and like some of you may know, I paused pyro a little bit.

 

I've always been a fan of great sound and I've been poisoned by the great sounding of tubes lately. I have a 2A3 SE tube amp in mind, which will be hopefully made in the summer. A pair of Fostex Fe103en back loaded horns will be driven with it. I already have some parts - the DHT 2A3 russian equivalents (6B4G), PSU chokes, sockets, etc.

 

I have also finished my AK4396 DAC which features a tube preamp/unbalancer inside.

 

Any audio projects going in your minds?

Edited April 21, 2012 by 50AE

[dan999ification]

nice, i used to be into sound, well bass in a big way growing up, all that remains now is a cheap feable hifi and the sub in her car, my bike exhaust satisfies my need for noise in summer.

 

dan.

 

 

[50AE]

Not everyone can be pyro. The same way not everyone can be audiophile. Few people appreciate music like we do.

 

Many people see audiophilism as a pointless, expensive sickness. We just enjoy to listen to the mostly realistic playback we can.

 

For example we don't dislike mp3s because somebody tells they are shit, but because they truely sound shit and the difference is easily made on high end system.

 

In a truely high end system there are no more hidden sounds. All is revealed to you. You can hear everything that the composer has wanted to record. You start to distinct crappy records between good ones. You start to expand your musical repertoir. Now for example I listen to Louis Armstrong and I like his recordings.

 

You begin to believe in stuff you may never believed before. You notice how a mains filter drastically improves sound quality. A cable swap changes the sound. As well as a capacitor, resistor, wire, tube and of course - a transformer

 

Some random photos:

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/94/3F/4e2540bb6a3f943f.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/19/AE/d6028784bf3e19ae.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/88/B8/09c55dde57a988b8.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/25/E7/4302ce55e31525e7.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/53/84/d1f3f29c85445384.jpg

[FrankRizzo]

I consider myself an audiophile, but I certainly don't think special "snake oil" cables give music any different tonal quality. Having your amplifier isolated and shielded from outside RF interference (like your PC and wireless network antennas generate) does make a huge difference though.

[dagabu]

I wish I was but alas, the money and ability to understand electronics escapes me though I do have a good ear and can tell the difference between good and OK amps.

 

-dag

[nater]

I thought about this thread as I was listening to an mp3 data cd on in my car. When mp3's first got popular in the heyday of Napster, I couldn't stand them. I could hear the difference due to the missing parts for the compression and all the songs had terrible tone in the upper end. While I still appreciate good quality speakers and amps, too many years of live shows without ear plugs, sirens, power equipment, motocross races, and fireworks have taken their toll on my ears and nothing sounds the same. Now, I like the convenience of DRM free mp3s and a digital player with large memory. When there is an album released that I really want to sit down and enjoy with no distractions, I still buy vinyl.

 

I only have a couple regrets from my teenage years (I'm only 30, so not that long ago either) one of them is not wearing ear plugs at loud shows. My ears bleeding after a concert wasn't worth it.

Edited April 25, 2012 by nater

[50AE]

I'd like to talk a little differently on audio, the senses and how it's related to the rest of things:

 

 

As you know, hearing is one of the five human senses. As well as taste, touch, smell and vision.

There are people who like the excitement of one or more of these senses to perfection.

 

One good example is the vision. We enjoy looking at many things. We love looking at fireworks. We like observing surroundings, eg.nature. But sometimes we do not/cannot see them with our own eyes. So the cameras and camcoders were invented. But why they never stop progressing with technology? Because we always try to replicate on a piece of photo paper what we have seen LIVE, but we can never achieve it perfectly. The sames goes to any technology that simulates the sense of vision - TVs, home cinemas and so on. They try to get the truest picture, but it seems to be unachievable.

 

Then come the people - maniacs, perfectionists for a certain sense. The vision guys may be HD TV maniacs or photographers having hundreds of cameras.

 

 

What about taste? Of course, we eat and drink. It is essential for us to live. Other enjoy it as a hobby as well. They concentrate on the tiniest details on a certain whine and can guess what kind/year it is. Others do the same with meat, desserts and so on.

 

The smell is another sense that has addicted people to it. Who from you all doesn't like the sweet smell of BP? Or the sweet perfume of your favourite lady?

 

And last but not least, the touch. Physical contact, from kiss to foreplay and sex is good example, and people will also try to get perfect in this.

 

Oh, of course I forgot mentioning about the hearing. It's a sense that helps us mainly for communication. Music is an art which of course stimulates the it, like the paintings do for vision. The human being has listened to live music during the most of its existence, but in the latest centures it was discovered that it could be recorded and transfered using electricity, so it could be listened anywhere with the proper equipment.

 

I have mentioned all five senses and I gave example for any of them. But why? Did you notice something common in few of them?

 

I will tell you. The answer is in technology. Yes, in some cases technology is used today to stimulate not all, but few - the hearing and the vision.

 

The other senses are easily stimulated to a great level without the need of tech stuff. It's enough to go out and smell some flowers, eat a tasty steak, and for the touch, do whatever you prefer to, alone or not Replicating these with electronics or mechanics would be hard, at least for now.

 

But to go and see the Sahara or listen to our favourite band could be much harder to do. That's why you may wish to look at pictures or turn on your hi fi system.

Is there a problem? Of course there is. It amazes me how many people forget we are talking about senses here, not electronics, not mechanics, not numbers! Today it's common to judge and describe certain equipment by doing technical measurements. But my humble opinion is:

 

1. The science has progressed, but it still does, and has a LOT more to do

2. Because of it, we do not have the explanation of various things.

3. So it is logical that we cannot use it to make a full final decision on certain things.

 

In a few words - A sense is a sense and is a lot more complicated than science try to tell us it is.

 

A good audio system is listened and a good visualising system is watched. It's performance cannot be fully predicted using oscilloscopes, THD measurement and so on.

 

I have nothing agains science and technology. I welcome them. What I am trying to say is that today's science cannot be fully relied on, especially on this tematic.

 

Think about it in another way. How would you feel - if a computers gives you specs if your perfume is good or not ; or how your food is supposed to taste like? Or it might tell you if you're doing good in bed?

 

Measuring equipment should be used to help, but never to fully relied on.

 

Take a look at it from a pyro point of view. Can the greatest colors be fully relied on stoichiometry? Do we really know everything about their formation? True, stoichiometry does help us, but the greatest colors and effects are obtained with more experimentation than calculations IMHO.

 

Just another sleepless night of phylosophy for me.

Edited May 14, 2012 by 50AE

[50AE]

Some photos of the DAC. It's still in progress, I have to make some changes on the outside. The hole in DAC will be kept for a volume control.

 

Stereo crosstalk: -85db.

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/7E/F1/e819e35da1247ef1.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/BB/5E/bd78519c17c9bb5e.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/36/7B/1e24a15f03f5367b.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/CC/D7/84f1c518a23accd7.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/1D/BF/afcb674f741d1dbf.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/79/B0/da0c227be9d979b0.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/5A/17/d03b66cf23945a17.jpg

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/43/DD/ba74a6f3ecc343dd.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/66/1D/7bc8e9640669661d.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/05/3D/c8e76578d9c5053d.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/A4/49/f8c8af2d09b8a449.png

Edited May 30, 2012 by 50AE

[Potassiumchlorate]

I don't understand much of it, but you seem to be very skilled at everything you do.

 

For my own part I listen to Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Grieg etc. on the crappy loudspeaker that came as standard with my computer.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate

[50AE]

I don't understand much of it, but you seem to be very skilled at everything you do.

 

Except at education. I doubt I'll get good at it

 

BTW, classical music is very hard to reproduce correctly. It's very dynamic and needs lots of SPL. This is where I find most solid state stuff die - it sounds compressed, while a correctly made tube amp at a high voltage is very dynamic.

[taiwanluthiers]

I wish I had the money to be into audio, because the stuff is just expensive as if pyrotechnics aren't expensive enough already.

 

Besides my idea of speakers blowing involves explosives rather than just the thing not working.

[50AE]

I have much progressed with my system. The sound is orgasmic now. Sometimes I do listen from morning until night. Every song makes you swim into a space of sounds. The vocals and instruments are in my room, playing infront of me. The sound quality is astonishing after 01AM, because the power supply is less in use and there is less noise in it.

 

The current schematic is:

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/87/F5/96f3a8df42a687f5.jpg

 

I am trying to get rid of all capacitors in the signal path. The coupling one is Bosch MP, a great cap after trying 10. The driver filter now is not made from 5H and 16uf caps, but 15H and 40uF cap.

 

My dream was realized just after a year! Others try to reach it for tenths of years. I am so happy. I wish to all of you to experience also this kind of sound one day

 

Pics:

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/27/36/2408e8278ffc2736.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/3E/6B/1e37071552243e6b.png

Edited October 10, 2012 by 50AE

[Richtee]

I have much progressed with my system. The sound is orgasmic now. Sometimes I do listen from morning until night. Every song makes you swim into a space of sounds. The vocals and instruments are in my room, playing infront of me. The sound quality is astonishing after 01AM, because the power supply is less in use and there is less noise in it.

 

The current schematic is:

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/87/F5/96f3a8df42a687f5.jpg

 

I am trying to get rid of all capacitors in the signal path. The coupling one is Bosch MP, a great cap after trying 10. The driver filter now is not made from 5H and 16uf caps, but 15H and 40uF cap.

 

My dream was realized just after a year! Others try to reach it for tenths of years. I am so happy. I wish to all of you to experience also this kind of sound one day

 

Pics:

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/27/36/2408e8278ffc2736.png http://store.picbg.net/thumb/3E/6B/1e37071552243e6b.png

 

That's a cool shot. Back in the day I used to do a bit of audio work. Mainly pro stuff...mixers, big SS amps... etc. Still have some boards and stuff around. Maybe I'll get some pix... Built a 6L6 qud tube class A waaaay...back. Could still find them easily enough...LOL! And there was still the odd store with a "tube tester" in it LOL!

[Richtee]

I guess not audio in the usual sense...but this is a 4 source music distribution control WITH doorbell over ride I did for a rich guy about 20 years ago. Check out the buss bar soldering to the 4 pole relays... PHEW!

[Chuleo]

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/27/36/2408e8278ffc2736.png

 

Looks good! Is that macassar ebony wood? I once made a 5.1 surround system with macassar wood veener. It gets a lot darker over time when you don't protect it against UV but it still looks very good.

[50AE]

Correct about the veneer. It looks very nice, I love it.

 

More photos (are the orange wires familiar to you?).

 

http://store.picbg.net/thumb/7C/79/5d8c2fd50bc37c79.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/9F/91/ec9dcd02e45f9f91.jpg http://store.picbg.net/thumb/A4/92/13f2883ceef0a492.jpg

[Chuleo]

Those wires look like the ones from electric matches ^^

 

Here's a pic of what I made some years ago.. That was my very first fully self developped sound system.

http://imageshack.us/a/img694/1588/pict0018kk.jpg

 

and this is the system I just finished some little time ago.

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/6996/imag0212k.jpg

 

Everything except the PA loudspeakers are self developped.

[50AE]

Chuleo, looks very nice. Very neat work!

 

Here's some update about my system. Also today I've found out the sad truth - the wires have a direction soundwise. When someone doesn't believe me, I'll gladly invite him to my place and have a listen. It doesn't take to have fancy ears, because the difference is so easy to hear

 

I'll give a bit of description of my system:

 

Source: Computer using linux Mint optimized for audio. (it really sounds much better than Win OS, never tried mac)

DAC: TDA 1543x8 Non oversampling, no digital filter, passive I/V

Interconnects: Copper oxygen free solid single stranded, chinese golden plated connectors

Amplifier: Single ended D3A in triode mode driving 6P45S in triode mode, custon output transformers, 5U3S rectifier, monoblocks, 8 watts output

Speaker cables: Copper oxygen free solid single stranded chinese golden plated connectors

Speakers: Fostex Fe138 ES-R almost fullrange + Fostex FT28-D as tweeter, elliptic filter for the fullrange and 2nd order for the tweeter, great phase response.

 

 

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1738/picture023dt.jpg

 

 

http://imageshack.us...cture024oy.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...cture025na.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...cture026dd.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...cture027qt.jpg/

 

 

Schematic: http://imageshack.us.../194/setdt.png/

 

Edited February 19, 2013 by 50AE

[MrB]

I've always found it funny when people mention MP3's as being inferior (they really are, in some ways) and then swear by tube amps, or hybrids. Tube's are fun, since they make it easy to prove a point. They are easy to swap, and swapping one, or in fancier kit's the pair, makes for changes to the sound, sometimes subtle, sometimes huge. The idea here is to change the sound in a way that the listener likes. But in all honesty, what we are doing, is introducing audio distortion, "warm noise" and amplification characteristics altering the way the sound... sounds. So much for hearing what the producer wanted to play for ya.

 

Yeah, i to have one of these neat small 6N111 tube hybrids, and a PAV2v2, the sound difference is huge. Playing around with tubes on the first one might be fun, but nothing makes it more accurate then the PAV2v2, and they cost about the same... (Yeah, peanuts, and the PAV2v2 isn't a tube hybrid.) Both are far from an audiophiles choice, but then again, i'm just running a pair of cheap KOSS headphones with em.

B!

Edited February 25, 2013 by MrB

[50AE]

I've learned from all this way, that there's no inferior topology and technology, at least saying it for diplomatic reasons to avoid forum wars. I have also learned that if someone wants to achieve the best results in this domain, he has to "walk the path" himself.

 

The key is to find out what you really want and listen, listen, listen, upgrade, listen, upgrade, listen again. When listening for so long, one inevitably develops his hearing.

 

Tube amplifiers suit my needs for home high end audio. Solid state is priceless for compact or high powered PA systems. Both can sound very good.

 

Tubes in a circuit doesn't mean a great sounding amplifier. While tube amps, in particular single ended seem very easy to build, because of the few components in the schematic, but it doesn't mean they will "sing" from the first time. It can be a PITA to make a tube amp sound good from the first time, especially from a beginner. One must invest great time, money and soul to make it sing like heaven. If he does, he will be rewarded with a sound that no solid state amp can do.

 

My system is at a very high level currently and I am able to hear the following:

-most importantly, feel the music like if it's my room. The vocal infront of me few feets away, a high hat few inches on the right. I can see the instruments and singers. A very good stage and presence.

-mp3 320 is easily identified vs lossless

-every mains disturbance

-the direction of speaker cables, the direction of interconnect cables. I am able to put the cables the other way around if it doesn't sweet my taste

-the position of the AC power plugs in the sockets. Turning them the other way around changes the phase and is immediately heard as a change in the stage.

-any other component - rectifier tube, capacitor, resistor.

 

I am also able to easily fall asleep while listening to an average of 98dB of sound pressure. If some of you wonder how, the truth is, our ear is very sensitive to distortion. So if the distortion is low and the sounds are natural, the ear easily accepts high volumes of sound without a fatigue feel.

 

 

Not everyone does understand and can practice into high end audio, it's like pretending anyone can become a pyro

Edited February 25, 2013 by 50AE

[MrB]

There is no question about it. Analog devices like tubes is inherently incapable of providing a unaltered sound. As i said, from a person to another you can cherry pick, and select the sound you like better, but it has very little to do with sound accuracy. In fact, people still use mainly analog recording studios, and first after recording digitalized and store it on a digital master-tape. The reason? The cold hard truth about how it really sounds doesn't match up with the expectations, the analog "warmth" is missing. Not that it's a real problem, those using a digital recording-studio cant really be told apart after adding a digital noise filters to compensate for the noiseless features of the digital recording. For some reasons, very expencive studios, or very cheap software, it's pretty much the same noise they add either way

 

Analog vs digital isn't snake oil, or magic, it's a matter of preference, and what you expect, coming in to a test listening session. If you expect something, having a preconceived expectation of how "right" should sound, and what you end up listening to doesn't match, then you fail it as being inferior, regardless of if it's actually providing a more correct representation of the sound it's supposed to play. And thats why i find complaints about MP3's and the lack of correct sound reproduction amusing. The reasoning is sound, MP3's are flawed, but so is every high end stereo in existence. You just have to pick the flaws you want to live with.

B!

[taiwanluthiers]

Tube amps are favored for guitar amps because of the way they distort which makes for a better sound. Solid state distortion sounds like crap (unless its solid state distortion circuits that models a tube amp).

 

I'll deal with high end if I have extra money lying around.. I don't so I have really cheap systems. Right now I have a pair of Usher s520 and their integrated amplifier. The preamp in the integrated amp seems broken (one channel has very little signal and can't work out why) so I use the macbook pro as a "preamp". Not the best solution but it works as long as you keep the volume under control, because the power amp will make it LOUD if you're not careful. It sounds pretty good but it does lack bass response... it's a small speaker after all. Not that I want too much bass response, they can penetrate miles of concrete and annoy neighbors.

[TritonPyro]

If changing plugs makes or degrades the sound, you need a mains conditioner. I have used a tube amp for many years and it seems you are listening to problems and not the music.Analog sound is warmer and more like original pressings. If you cannot hear that, go back to mp3's Edited March 30, 2013 by TritonPyro

[50AE]

Changing plugs does change the sound even after a mains conditioner, it is not related to mains purity . But few have a very high end system to hear it.

[taiwanluthiers]

I just picked up a Peavey Deuce amp cheaply... I was going to build myself a tube guitar amp but this one is a lot cheaper, and it's a big mod bait.... change its internal circuit (keep the tubes, output and power transformer, which is about the most expensive part there is in the amp), and I can probably turn it into a Twin Reverb.