Charcoal and black powder

[Chemguy]

I am embarrassed to say this but I used timber for my BPhttp://www.apcforum.net/forums/style_images/Vampire--536/icon13.gif

I am sorry to inflict that on this thread but it is quite interesting. It burns quite slow, but it makes a lot of tiny burning bits go everywhere, so it looks like falling stars a bit. Interesting isn't it.

[psymon]

Different charcoals are for different uses. Pine is said to be good for effects, Alder or Willow for lift or BP. I have used plenty of BBQ charcoal for fountains, drivers, even rockets.

[hst45]

My stand-by charcoal is 24hr-milled poplar, but I've found that white pine is roughly equivalent, if not slightly faster. I use clear (no knots) kiln dired white pine scavanged from wood molding scraps. Also I recently tried newsprint, and found that to work very well also. Finally, something good comes from the New York Times!

[Phildo]

I find that White Pine or SPF sawdust makes a prety fast BP and is very easy to work with. Sanding dust is even easier and both are free from any wood-working shop.

 

 

Air Float Charcoal from Sawdust

[The_Duke]

The charcoal made by that process will not make a great quality powder.

[Phildo]

The charcoal made by that process will not make a great quality powder.

 

I never said it would make a great charcoal. I said it would make a pretty fast charcoal.

 

Several posters here have stated they can't find Willow or Paulownia and use BBQ charcoal, newsprint, Skylighter AF, and even match sticks. I simply posted a better aternative. Pine is readily available and using sawdust greatly speeds up the process.

[BPinthemorning]

go to a hoby store and buy balsa. the fastest charcoal EVER. Great for lifts and quick match

[mormanman]

Hey is there a special way to cool your charcoal after you make it so it does catch fire.

[CelticSocks]

Hey folks, I recently tried to make BP and my results haven't quite been satisfactory.

I made my own willow charcoal on a gas stove outside and followed instructions from http://www.musketeer.ch

I used the ratios 15 saltpeter, 3 Charcoal and 2 Sulfur.

I milled it in my homemade ballmill for 3 hours.

The product I got was slow to ignite, so I added some more sulfur.

I ended up with something that ignited easily but would bubble and liquify as it burned. It would also leave a hard, white residue.

Despite producing extreme heat, it doesn't give the impression of a substance that is particularily volatile.

Any suggestions?

[pudidotdk]

Since you say homemade mill, have you ever made decent black powder in it before? Or have you ever made black powder in it before?

If not, your mill might not be efficient enough to make decent Black powder at 3 hours, you might need to run it 12+ hours.

 

What size of jar?

RPM?

Size/material/amount of milling media?

[hst45]

CelticSocks, it sounds like you've made rookie mistake #1 in pyro; thinking that milled meal is ready to use. It needs to be corned/riced, etc., meaning that it has to be make into granules to perform as you would like it to. I won't spend a bunch of time lecturing on the processes, they are readily available in this forum, just read up a bit and you'll find the answers.

 

I can't rag on you, I did the same thing back when I was in junior high school. I mashed up about 10 grams of KNO3/C/S in a mortar and pestle, poured this "black powder" out on a concrete sidewalk, lit a match, and got ready for the big earth-shattering "KABOOM" that I was sure to follow, only to be deflated by the somewhat smoky, sputtery, mess with a few globs of glowing red shit that followed. You're close, just one more step to go. Be careful, use SMALL amounts, and stay safe.

[WarezWally]

Anyone have any experience with charcoal made from a liquid amber (Redgum) tree?

 

Dont want to waste my time when i can get poplar and white pine.

[Bonny]

Never tried Redgum tree,none up here in the great white north...

Why bother anyway? Just use the poplar and/or pine. Both work well, depending on who you ask.

[WarezWally]

Just cooked up a batch of poplar and liquid amber. I have a limited supply of poplar and pine is kinda expensive to buy. Looking around for a plentiful local alternative:

 

Has anyone heard about any success with Eucalyptus? I have a whole forest at my disposal and nearly everybody has one in their backyard. According to wikipedia it makes good charcoal and is the source of 'red gum'. Due to it being native to my country (Australia) there may not be much data on it.

[Bonny]

As far as I know, red gum is the resin from the yacca tree, not eucalyptus.

Anyway, don't see why it wouldn't work.

[Mumbles]

There are two popular sources for pine. It may be different in Austrailia, but it is something to check. One main source is lumber. These are often pine, at least in the US. It is often refere to as SPF lumber. That is Spruce, Pine, Fir. You will want to ask which they have, and make sure it's not pressure treated. The other popular source is animal bedding. It is sold in hardware stores, an general big box stores, probably Bunnings. Look in the animal section. Usually it is in big vacuum packed containers. A few cubic feet for a few dollars. These weigh around 7-10lbs last time I checked. They are chips, kind of like mulch.

[WarezWally]

Ive had a look at Bunnings and all of the pine i could see was treated. Other than that there was hardwood and something else that i had never heard of. They also had oak but it was very dark. I can get pure pine (and any other timber) from a woodworking supply store but its not cheap.

Ive noticed the chips at Bunnings but i didn't pay to much attention because it looked very rough and unattractive.

 

Ill give the eucalyptus a shot this weekend, also have a few bales of sugarcane mulch to experiment with.

[NightHawkInLight]

I used to own pheasant ducks and chickens and went through a lot of cedar shavings. It is sometimes sold in 40 pound bags at tractor supply stores. I'm sure pet stores also have it in smaller quanitys.

[WarezWally]

results still pending for the sugarcane and eucalyptus but i have a new specimen to test.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottlebrush

 

Such a nice looking tree

[WarezWally]

Bottlebrush was a complete bitch to work with, it was harder than hardwood and was very springy which made chopping and splitting it quite a chore. Have not made a bp batch with it yet, dont think i will.

 

Sugarcane mulch was wonderful, take a handful from the compressed cube (smells great too) and dump it in the retort. Its completely cooked in 10 mins. Only takes 5 minutes in my ballmill to turn it into airfloat. Ive got a batch of BP milling as i type this. Will compare to poplar.

[invisibleworld]

I need to know, just to make sure, does black powder need somekind of special charcoal, or can i just light up some wood matches and use that charcoal. Second question is, that can i use brayer, not ball mill to mix up black powder?

Thanks!

If you are not set up to make your own charcoal or just would rather avoid the mess and hassle, or live with folks or a neatfreak girlfriend or room mate, for a good source for charcoal and many types including alder and willow, you might try customcharcoal.com. I am totally sold on them.

Upon reading this thread many of you have talked about how fast the BP is using different charcoals. I was wondering how you measure the speed. Do you lay out a line in a V shaped trough? Does the speed of one type of charcoal compaired to another increase relitivly the same to each other when under pressure, as in a rocket. Would one type concidered, say medium slow be considered faster under preassure than one concidered to be fast not under presure, and could it be faster than the fast one when both are under pressure? I know I have to make a lot of adjustments to the mixtures just going from a 4 OZ BP rocket to a 1 pounder or 3 Lb. When I used alder instead of the Skylighter airfloat hardwood, burning it in a line was extreamly faster. The 4 OZer's shoot out of my launch tube like a bat out of hell, and the 1 pounders CATOed big time.

[Mumbles]

For more numerical burn time applications, you do indeed place the BP in a trough and time. Normally this is too fast to do by hand. Electronic testers or a video camera are used. Well, lets put it this way. If you can do it by hand, it's too slow.

 

I really have no idea how burn rate increases under pressure. Just from experience, slower burning powder will still be slower under pressure. Assuming identical ingredients, faster powder unconfined should still be faster confined to a point. I imagine it is some sort of effect that plateaus at some point. There is probably some underlying factor regulating everything to a maximum. Rather unrelated but somewhat similar, but proteins are regulated to the rate of diffusion, even though they may theoretically be able to go faster. I wouldn't say a significantly slower powder could significantly surpass a faster one, but perhaps at least pull even to it.

[Aquarius]

Refering to Ian van Mahliz's book among others, the burnrate of BP is very dependant on pressure. That is why even a medium fast powder can be used in a salute, and why a fairly slowburning powder will CATO a bigger rocket.

 

Another "problem" in measuring the speed of fast and slow powders is the grain size of the powder. A dustlike powder will burn slow, while the same powder will burn faster if coned.

 

I do not quite understand the quest for the fastest powder.

For me it is a simple matter of ease of making, reliable sources and result, and most important: Will it perform good enough?

[invisibleworld]

I don't quite understand it either (Quest for faster B/P) I am trying to find a slower B/P for a three pounder and up rocket without CATO. I have to say though that I have not tried a whole lot as I have to drive a distance to test them out. I live in the city and can't try something new and just test it out right away. I have only used greenmeal right out of the ballmill. My whissle turned out really great for the small rockets though. I am going to try a one pounder. I just built a new tool tonight and I will run off a batch of the Pot/ch Sodium/sal mix and give it a test.

[hst45]

Aquarius and invisibleworld, I'm with you. I'm personally much more concerned with consistency than speed. I want a know quantity that I can produce repeatedly and reliably. Of course to be good quality it has to be reasonable fast, but consistency rules.