Copper/Lead Media

[Wiley]

I saw some pictures in dagabu's gallery which depicted some milling media made from short sections of copper tubing which had been cast full of lead. Dag mentioned that he had used them to mill charcoal and BP. I think that this is a great idea, so I would like to know a few particulars, if it's not too much bother.

 

Dag, what was the length to diameter ratio for these little slugs? What procedure did you use to hold and seal the tubes when casting the lead? And lastly, since you used them to mill BP, may I assume that this media is totally sparkproof and completely safe for milling BP?

 

I am interested in optimizing a 6lb rock tumbler using Nski's intructions on Skylighter, and I thought that cylindrical media would be a cheaper option than the hardened lead balls that he uses. Would .5" diameter by .625" (or so) long copper/lead milling media work just as well as the lead balls for milling BP with this setup? Thanks!

[dagabu]

No problem Wiley, glad to help. Before I made these, I contacted Lloyd S. about the idea and he told me that a 1:1 to about 1:5 ratio was going to work the best so I just went with his advice. The copper 1/2" is sched 40 copper tube, cut to 3/4" long WITH A PIPE CUTTER. That is VERY important to do. I used an electric pipe cutter so the 500 pieces I made took only 5 hours to cut.

 

 

These are the freshly poured media, they are filled to just shy of overflowing so that there is room to swedge the lead into the tube using a hydraulic press set to 10,000 LPI. This fully seats the lead and the flanges from the tube cutter actually bite into the lead to keep chems out of the media. Just find a piece of hard wood, soak it in water overnight, set the empty tubes on it and pour the lead into the tubes.

 

WHAT!?! Pour lead onto a wet section of wood?!? Are you CRAZY!?! Well, yes, I am crazy but the wet wood is the only reason why you can cast these on a board in the first place. If you use dry wood, the lead will not solidify soon enough and it will just run out the bottom. I just love it when guys bore a bunch of holes in a plank and fill them with lead, the wood starts on fire, makes tons of smoke and the lead looks like crap. Wear protective clothing (leather) and face mask and you will be fine.

 

 

 

IMHO, these will outlast lead balls 10:1 and are 100% non sparking and safe for BP and charcoal grinding.

 

-dag

[bob]

I made my own lead media (round) I used tire wights for the lead =FREE and a lee musket ball mold that I got for $20 and tire wights have some tin and zinc in them to make them harder which is great for media, and a nother thin you can do to make them harder is when you have casted a ball you drop it in a 3 to 5 gallon bucket of cold water and they will be very hard

and it does not take long I'm make 1000 right now for a one gallon mill!

Adam

Edited April 16, 2012 by bob

[JFeve81]

What do you use to melt your lead? And where do you get the lead itself?

[dagabu]

What do you use to melt your lead? And where do you get the lead itself?

 

LEE Production Pot, bottom pour. It will hold #20 of lead. I get all my lead from a friend with an auto shop, melt the weights down, pour them into ingots to store them for future use. They have some tin, arsenic and antimony in them to make then much harder then virgin lead will be.

 

 

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr184/tonyjferrara/004.jpg

 

 

http://www.gunthorp.com/images/Lee%20Ingot%20mold.jpg

 

 

-dag

[Wiley]

Thanks dag, that's just what I needed!

 

Do any of you know if 1/2" cylinder copper/lead media will work well in place of hardened lead balls in an optimized 6lb rock tumbler ball mill?

[Wiley]

After thinking over the copper/lead deal, it seems that simply purchasing suitable media would be the most cost effective and labor saving. Good, thick copper tubing isn't all that cheap .

This is slightly off-topic, but I recall reading a post in which someone asked this question but no one replied to it. Is this alumina ceramic media from pyrocreations, http://www.pyrocreat...ail/11955/49189, completely non-sparking and suitable for ball milling BP?

 

Edit: How about casting lead balls with something like this: http://www.rotometal...bulletmetal.htm, or this http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/Linotypealloy.htm?gclid=CIuW8-uwuK8CFQZ_hwod4UZygw? The latter may be a bit hard, though. Rotometals even sells pure antimony ingots!

Edited April 16, 2012 by Wiley

[oldguy]

I never used alumina grinding media, so I cannot give an opinion on it.

 

I started out milling with 50 caliber hardened lead balls.

Over time, with heavy use they turn to 45 caliber, then 38 caliber, then 30 caliber.

 

Then was lucky to find a source of Zirconium "M" type ceramic media for a decent price.

New retail it costs about $25 a pound.

Best grinding media in the world IMHO.

 

 

You can get by without a commercial melting pot.

An electric or gas stove, some of the bigger hot plates & even a Coleman gas stove will melt lead.

For that matter a charcoal briquette chimney starter will do the job.

 

You can use a small stainless steel $2 pot from any thrift store for a crucible.

If need be, bend the pot rim somewhat to form a small pour spout.

 

The laborious chore is cutting the copper pipe, if you don't have an electric pipe cutter.

Even with an electric pipe cutter, it still takes hours.

 

If you don't have a hydraulic press, you can swag the lead in with a 6 or 8 pound steel hammer.

 

Edit to add:

Shop around in thrift stores for a few dollars worth of cheap junk Pewter mugs or whatever.

Alloy about 6% into wheel weight lead.

Edited April 16, 2012 by oldguy

[bob]

Yes cutting the copper would take a long time to cut up

this is why I like making musket balls they are fast to make

in one day you could have 2000 made up ( if you have that much lead)

I use a little propane camp stove so I can do it out side!

Adam

[Wiley]

Oldguy, I recall a thread in which you alloyed lead and antimony to cast hardened lead balls. Drawing from your experience, which of these harder alloys from Rotometals http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm would be as hard as possible (but not too hard) for ball milling purposes? I'll be using a modified 6lb "rock tumbler" with only one 3lb jar. The jar is somewhat flexible, so it might be possible to make the media a bit harder than media used in, say, a PVC jar. Thoughts anyone?

 

 

[oldguy]

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/hardballbulletcastingalloy.htm

 

I would go with the link above, IF you don't have wheel weights to make your own alloy with.

 

If you have wheel weights, to add, then I would go with the 70/30 in the link below.

 

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30_antimony_70_lead.htm

 

 

EDIT TO ADD:

Just realized you are only running a single harbour freight 3lb jar.

About 200 pieces should be plenty, with some to spare.

Edited April 16, 2012 by oldguy

[warthog]

I used to use the same "ball mill" Wiley and I made my media in less than an afternoon using Bob's method.

 

I believe it took me all of three hours to make myself hardened lead, .54 cal, lead alloy balls that are still in use after two years of hard use.

[bob]

sorry this post was a mastak

so sorry

bob

Edited April 17, 2012 by bob

[bob]

Here is some of my media

I just made 250 balls in 2 hours from start to finsh

[Wiley]

So bob, to clarify, are these made from melted wheel weights dropped into cold water immediately after casting? Edited April 17, 2012 by Wiley

[bob]

yes pour melted lead into your mold let the sprue solidify and then use a piece of wood to hit the sprue cutter ( get one with a sprue cutter it's really nice!) than drop the balls in a bucket of cold water

before you pour the lead into your mold take a candile and hold the mold over top so the smoke gets in the mold it helps the balls not to stick not that they stick much anyway

Adam

[bob]

sorry I forgot to say preheat you mold

Adam

[Wiley]

Well, it's time to start thinking seriously about casting some lead media. Oldguy mentioned using this alloy http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/hardballbulletcastingalloy.htm for media. Would dropping the finished balls into cold water make them too hard, i.e. would they crack when used in a PVC jar?

[bob]

I can not see them cracking you pvc jar

I mean if you drop a lead ball on your hand from 5 feet up and then drop a steel ball from the same 5 feet the lead one is going to get a bigger ounch out of you

I know lead is a LOT softer but you still have to hit it pretty hard to make a dent in it even if it's just musket balls that are made from pure lead and are not put into cold water

so I would still drop them into cold water

another thing that's nice about dropping them into cold water is you don't have to let them sit for any time cause they will cool so fast in water

I've spent a lot of time making my musket balls but you have to remember that I've made 2200 of them which would have cost me a ton of cash if I had just bought them

bob

[pyrojig]

I've made 2200 of them which would have cost me a ton of cash if I had just bought them

bob

 

My hat goes off to ya! You must have ball's ! A lot of them.

[bob]

Thanks pyrojig

bob

[bigbuck]

scrap yards usually have tons of lead, i found clean lead ribbons there and bought it for 20 cents a pound