Hemp Coal

[Wiley]

Shimizu's KP burst charges use a substance called "hemp coal" for the carbon fuel. Since hemp doesn't grow all that well in a desert climate (not to mention that it's illegal ) I was thinking that it might work to cook pure hemp rope (like this: http://www.hemptraders.com/index.php?cPath=25 ) in a retort and ballmill the result. Would this make "hemp coal" in the practical sense of the term, and would it work well in KP burst mix? Ah, that brings up another question (hate it when that happens ). I have ready access to cedar wood; I believe that the actual variety is western red cedar. Does charcoal from this wood produce BP with power comparable to BP made with white pine charcoal? Thanks! Edited April 11, 2012 by Wiley

[Bcorso85]

If you go on the Creegans website he has a great charcoal solubility chart that will help with b.p. and sparks. If I'm wrong, please someone correct me

, but I believe hemp rope will not work. I think there's also a lot of fiber in there for extra strength making it unpure.

Ben

[pyrojig]

Mum claims it to be very fast wood for bp (cedar)

I would forget the hemp charcoal. There are so many other woods that perform incredibly. Im sure this was what was available and common to their era. ( not saying it wasnt a good charcoal now) .

 

Creagans site has great info as stated above.

[Seymour]

In my edition of F.A.S.T Shimizu follows Hemp coal with Paulownia coal, in brackets, indicating that Hemp was merely a popular choice, as was Paulownia.

 

In practice it is common not to use either of these charcoals for the burst mix, and any other good quality charcoal, or sometimes intentionally less reactive charcoals are chosen. Cedar should work very well in KP burst charge.

 

Similarly H3 chlorate burst true to name would use Hemp charcoal, since that's where the "H" comes from in the name. However, even after naming the mix after Hemp, Shimizu follows it by (or Paulownia Coal).

[Mumbles]

They may have had a different sort of hemp in Japan. Several people who have tried it in the US always seemed to report sub-par findings. It's relatively high in ash content, which is normally indicative of relatively poor charcoals. Who knows what it was like under pressure though.

 

I used to use almost exclusively perchlorate based bursts. Some almost required poor charcoal such as you'd get with commercial airfloat. This one in particular was a perchlorate:charcoal:benzoate burst, essentially a watered down whistle mix. I made it with willow once and turned every shell I had into a salute. There are others such as KP and some others by Shimizu that will accept a hotter charcoal. I generally made this with cowboy brand lumpwood charcoal. I'd classify it as sort of middle of the road. One thing I think that a lot of people overlook is that you can use a mix of charcoal is compositions. If you only want to keep something hot like alder, willow, or pauwlonia around, you can temper the burst with commercial airfloat.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Changing the type of charcoal, as stated, is a way to tune the performance of the mix. Another one is particle size.

 

Especially the charcoal fineness seems to change the burn speed, as Shimizu suggests.

[Bcorso85]

Personally I keep on hand commercial air float, red willow, regular willow and pine air floats on hand. On pass fire under market place there's an ad for paulowia coal. Check it out if you really want it.

[Algenco]

Personally I keep on hand commercial air float, red willow, regular willow and pine air floats on hand. On pass fire under market place there's an ad for paulowia coal. Check it out if you really want it.

 

 

Don't see a ad for Paulownia, there used to be one, the guy was in Fl but wouldn't ship.

I ocassionally have a little extra

[pyrojig]

I will have access to a load of paulownia here soon. I will post it as soon as the source has proven true and able to handle hundreds of pounds. They make their own charcoal (so Im told) ,and if it is good quality, I will make sure to share with the pyro community .

[Bcorso85]

Pyrojig,

Please let me know. I'd be happy to buy some.

Algenco,

Sorry they must have taken it off when they remodled the website.

[Algenco]

previously ads were free, kyle charges now

[Mumbles]

I saw that recently. I don't know how I feel about paying for access to a site that also charges for advertising. There is a reason there are not budweiser commercials on HBO.

[dagabu]

I saw that recently. I don't know how I feel about paying for access to a site that also charges for advertising. There is a reason there are not budweiser commercials on HBO.

 

IMHO, I won't be re-upping my membership there when it expires, tired of the drama and utter lack of moderation. We bump heads (Mum) sometimes but all in all this has become by far the more valuable web site. Now, if only we could get the formulas from PF to the database here...

 

-(just) dag (sayin)

[busspuppy]

I thought of transfering over some formualas before, but decided against it. I also just noticed this on passfir. "Subscriptions have a duration of 12 months, which starts from the date on which payment was made. " So I guess they took away the 6 article subscription limit. That is a bummer since some have us haven't paid in years.

[Holliiwood]

Hello. this is my first post here. I have several questions.

• What would one expect to pay for HEMP COAL?
• I need a better way to cook HEMP other than cutting it up into small pieces. Labor intensive. Any ideas?
• I am making Hemp Coal from both Green and Dried stalks and stems. Which do you think is best?
• What about the root-balls? I do know for a fact Roots, Stalks/Stems, Bark, Leaves and Buds or Flowers have different properties in all plants. Should I Roast the Balls too?
• Would anyone care to do some REAL TESTING of my various HEMP COAL types, collect the data and document the results to be made public?

I own a very small company named Bowman Technical Services or B.T.S. Our interest is primarily in Electra-Mechanical Design, Research and Fabrication however we are limited by nothing if we find it interesting.

I am working on a project that has made it necessary for B.T.S. to get acquainted intimately with Fireworks Compositions and the Chemicals used to produce them. I noticed the call-out for Hemp Charcoal here and there and since I live where I do, why not make the stuff?!? I since have found that this material is even consumed for various reasons (some people will eat anything) and that it may be...IS up and coming in Super-Capacitor/Battery Manufacture.

 

Recently California Legalized Marijuana for Recreational use. I live in Trinity County currently and spent most of my life in Mendocino County, two of the three counties known back-in-the-day as "THE EMERALD TRIANGLE".

I know many Pot growers and locally I just put out flyers as well telling everyone that I want their trash. Some donate and most "I pay Cash for Marijuana Trash" (catchy ....no? copyright 2016). Once Marijuana has been Pyrolyzed it is no longer illegal in any state, being mostly carbon, and under the definition set down by the Federal Government can not be considered a Controlled Substance.

 

I have already started production of small batches of HEMP COAL and have several pounds ready in various states, all heading towards AF I think. Some of the Raw Material was as big as my leg is around and required chain and hand saws to process. it is not the same as dealing with wood at all....and the small buds and leaves produce absolutely nothing to speak of and just get in the way. I did miss the Harvest-Boat as it where though and want to scream when I hear "Oh man......I'm so sorry.....I just BURNED IT ALL!" or otherwise destroyed it all. but I have their attention with the Cash offer. Next harvest, some every 3 months, will be better.

 

If any one is interested or has any input let me know here or email me if that is not against the rules. Bill Bowman BowmanTechnicalServices@outlook.com

[pyrojig]

I have always wondered about MaryJane being a good sub for Hemp , and or if it can perform like SHimizu claims. It seems that not only is it very porous in nature ( great for H3) it is supposed to be very high in carbon., Which should mean hot bp/ .

Please let us know if this is the case. Do you make your own bp?

[Col]

Hops could be worth a try as its a close relative of hemp (Cannabaceae family).

[DavidF]

Pyrotechnica (Issue #17) used hemp twine in a charcoal study. I thought it was an unfair test to not use the whole stems as Shimizu describes. The fibers they used made excellent charcoal sparks, but poor black powder. Cannabis stems- dry- are very tough, and can be a little dangerous to cut on a miter saw. Hand tools are useless for the task.

 

In my limited testing, cannabis charcoal was good for sparks, but not remarkably so. It didn't make the hottest black powder, for sure. I think the most important thing to note about it is that the charcoal has a high pH, which Shimizu mentions. I had a comp containing aluminum start warming up when I used it.

 

Considering the possible legal issues, the difficulty in processing compared to woods, the performance, and the pH issue, I never bothered trying it again. Maybe it's better for perchlorate or chlorate burst powders, but I haven't used those- other than whistle mix.

[Mumbles]

From a practical perspective if trying sell charcoal for pyrotechnic uses, $10-12 seems to be about the upper limit people are willing to spend. It's a pretty high commodity chemical in our hobby, and you have to balance economics with use. I don't know how much you're offering to purchase the feedstock for, but you tend to get 10-20% yield in terms of charcoal out. So 100lbs of stems, leaves, whatever will give probably 10-20lbs of charcoal.

 

Hemp has always been kind of a mystery. Shimizu touts it as good charcoal, but more or less every first hand experience I've heard of it have been average at best. The same is true of vine charcoal. There seems to be a regional difference there though. The vine charcoal from Spain, Italy, or elsewhere in Europe seems to be quite a bit better than what has been produced in the US. Maybe there is something similar with hemp. Hemp plants are genetically and evolutionarily different than cannabis plants. The larger, faster growing, and more stalk-y nature of hemp may give it an advantage over cannabis plants. Then again, volatiles and organic materials from pyrolysis of the wood are said to give faster charcoals. Only tests will tell I suppose. I'm sure you can get some takers.

 

I'm not sure how well hops would work for that matter either. They tend to be mostly pretty vine-like and are perennial growers. I'm not sure how much woody stalk or mature product they can really produce since they are harvested or die off every year down to a crown or root stock. Wine vines grow over time to real woody stalks, but I'm unclear whether or not hops are allowed to grow to the same level over more than just the base.

[NeighborJ]

I'm not going to mention how I know this but the kind of hemp which makes good charcoal is not the kind breed for flowers. The flowering plants are feed nutrients to promote flower growth, these nutrients tend to make a charcoal which leaves large quantities of ash and burn slower. The kind used for making rope is not feed the same nutrients and as a result it does not produce the excessive quantities of ash. Unfortunately I believe the type of stems which you will receive from the Emerald triangle will produce very poor quality charcoal.

[OldMarine]

I have ERC, Willow and Paulownia charcoals and have no desire for hotter powder. I have SYP, commercial AF and Sassafras for sparks. When I run out of other pyro activities to try I'll get back to coals.

I agree with DaveF on milling method being as important as the type of charcoal. He gets hot powder from Oak which speaks volumes.

[pyrojig]

Its said that oak can produce nice powder ; I have never tried it but believe it may better than the hemp lol .

I like the simplicity of pine .It produced plenty hot bp and is perfect for sparks ( a perfect middle of the road material).

I have made paulownia powder and it is incredibly hot, but has few uses , other than bursting shells.

[OldMarine]

Pyrojig, I use those coals exclusively for burst and rockets. All other projects get commercial hardwood airfloat.

[Holliiwood]

ALOT of info from everyone.

as far as "do I make my own BP?"... that is a yes i do, both ball milled ye old wet method.

We are currently working on a better Burn Rate Timer than thread/micro-switch to digital stopwatch or Camcorder on high speed. so far the "Brain-Trust" all agree that using Sensors to measure the changes in Light and Heat at start and end of burn, and they are looking into Sensor speed limitations. I had to insist that the test-bed would NOT be built inside of a enclosed "Chamber" (talk of a 55gal drum modification) to measure the Pressure produced. next they will want buy or rent Gas Chromatography gear!

I will let everyone know how that Project is going as things progress....or don't.

 

as far as more ASH being produced, I think that is an easy one! I have some data on the "POT-ASH" issue soon.

[Holliiwood]

I have always wondered about MaryJane being a good sub for Hemp , and or if it can perform like SHimizu claims. It seems that not only is it very porous in nature ( great for H3) it is supposed to be very high in carbon., Which should mean hot bp/ .

Please let us know if this is the case. Do you make your own bp?

Sure do! Ball Milled mostly.

I think I'll hop down to the shop and Get My Balls Rolling on some POT-Airfloat production right now so I can get to the Fun Stuff!