Demi Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Im really new to this stuff so bare with me.Ive been making smokes the Potassium Nitrate/sugar/pariffin wax way, and had great results and was looking to move to something with some color.I know this has been covered a bit here.Color smoke - APC forums In it Mumbles give this recipe. Smoke Dye - 50Potassium Chlorate - 30Lactose - 20 Ive got plenty of all the ingredients. But the more I read about Chlorate the more I thought I should ask a bit before just trying something blind. I am aware of some of the potential problems using Chlorates. Dont grind or press, and evidently sulfur is not its friend. Just curious if there is anything else I should know? Do i need to diaper mix it? Is it that volatile? Lastly with the nitrate smokes Ive been using soupcans with a foil cover (it was igniting without it) and green fuse. Should I do the same with the chlorate? Is it safe to transport? What Im am trying to achieve is similar to the military smokes I use at work but much much more smoke. Many thanks in advance!
Demi Posted March 21, 2012 Author Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Oh yeah, this will be used in fairly close proximity to people. Will the smoke be toxic? AND the fuses im using might contain sulfur im not sure. Is this going to pose a problem? Edited March 21, 2012 by Demi
graumann Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Depending on the dye it more than likely will be toxic, I've not seen any that I would be comfortable getting more than a dilute whiff of. As for the increased sensitivity from sulfur with chlorates, that is something I am not entirely sure of but I imagine coating the fuse in wax before inserting it would be advisable. I would never transport or store in any confined space I would be in, so manufacture and store outdoors or under open cover, and transport in the boot or open bed tray.
Mumbles Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I wouldn't worry so much about a fuse causing sensitivity issues. The amount is very low and very localized. You can always fuse them on site. The issues become impact and friction sensitivity when they are mixed. There really isn't much concern over spontaneous combustion anymore. As far as the smoke dyes go, they might be toxic. Go on the assumption that they're at least not good for you. There are some they use in smoke packs they place in bundles of money. I doubt the toxicity of a smoke dye when it is being released onto bank robbers of of great concern. Of real concern though is that most dyes used for smokes will stain your clothing and skin without relent. This is true both in vapor and solid form. I speak from experience when I say you cannot wash it out of your clothing, and it takes a while to wash it off your person.
Demi Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 I wouldn't worry so much about a fuse causing sensitivity issues. The amount is very low and very localized. You can always fuse them on site. The issues become impact and friction sensitivity when they are mixed. There really isn't much concern over spontaneous combustion anymore. As far as the smoke dyes go, they might be toxic. Go on the assumption that they're at least not good for you. There are some they use in smoke packs they place in bundles of money. I doubt the toxicity of a smoke dye when it is being released onto bank robbers of of great concern. Of real concern though is that most dyes used for smokes will stain your clothing and skin without relent. This is true both in vapor and solid form. I speak from experience when I say you cannot wash it out of your clothing, and it takes a while to wash it off your person. Well I don't know if the smokes we are issued are toxic but we play in that stuff. The company I got all the dye from is called walrus and they make their dyes just for milspec smoke....not that it makes it safe. They always give us stuff to play with that is probably terrible for you.
Demi Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 Can anyone post a picture of the top cap you used? I'm using foil with an X cut in it to keep it from igniting but I'm sure there is a better way. I know that larger smokes will need larger vent holes. Are there any things to think about with making a coffee can size smoke? Be it lactose or saltpeter?
Demi Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 I wanna thank everyone for the help. Here is where Im at. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0410.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0411.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0412.jpg Ill post up a vid tomorrow when I test them out. Here is the recipe that I used. This was provided with the smoke dyes for a "fast burn" I made 160g smokes so Ill list the weights that I used as well. Smoke Dye 36% 57.6gPotassium Chlorate 32% 51.2gLactose 20% 32.0gMagnesium Carbonate 9% 14.4Sodium Bicarbonate 3% 4.8g I sourced the Mag carbonate out of a weight lifting chalk ball I had handy. I did a small test and it worked great! The normal burn seemed slow but I didnt have the cap on it so I need to try that too. Here are the other recipes supplied. Normal burn:Smoke Dye 36% Potassium Chlorate 27% Lactose 18% Magnesium Carbonate 16% Sodium Bicarbonate 3% Slow Burn:Smoke Dye 43% Potassium Chlorate 24% Lactose 16% Magnesium Carbonate 12% Sodium Bicarbonate 5% Also tomorrow Ill post up my paraffin wax mix and results. Thanks guys!
Mumbles Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Did you get the normal and slow burns mixed up? It seems odd that the slow one has less carbonates in it? It looks like you're on the right track. Carbonates really help keep the mix cool and from flaring up. When they flare up the smoke will probably turn gray. You want the mix to vaporize the smoke, but not burn it up. I really didn't know that weight lifting chalk was MgCO3. That's really good to know. I had some USP grade before, but I need to restock at some point in the future.
Demi Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 Did you get the normal and slow burns mixed up? It seems odd that the slow one has less carbonates in it? It looks like you're on the right track. Carbonates really help keep the mix cool and from flaring up. When they flare up the smoke will probably turn gray. You want the mix to vaporize the smoke, but not burn it up. I really didn't know that weight lifting chalk was MgCO3. That's really good to know. I had some USP grade before, but I need to restock at some point in the future. I copied the recipe line for line as they gave me but that doesn't mean something isn't off. Ill share the letter and see what you think. Im not sure if its specific to the dye or what. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/color.jpg I would like to give these guys a business bump. They were super helpful and my dyes showed up really quickly in double sealed ziplock. Expect $20-$30 per lb depending on color. As far as the chalk goes im pretty stoked to find that out too. I was looking at the recipe and I was dissapointed that I was missing something else. But sure enoughhttp://www.californi...htlifting-chalkIve read that some of it is calcium based but I wouldnt know how to check. Seems like 90% of the stuff out there is straight magnesium carbonate.
optimus Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Can anyone post a picture of the top cap you used? I'm using foil with an X cut in it to keep it from igniting but I'm sure there is a better way. I know that larger smokes will need larger vent holes. Are there any things to think about with making a coffee can size smoke? Be it lactose or saltpeter? You should look into 'baffles' for the exhaust. All the commercial smokes I've used have had a few of these recessed into the top of the tube. I've only ever used chipboard discs with a central hole, but there are other ways... An excerpt from a UKPS topic: Baffles... Best way to produce baffles is to make cardboard end discs and glue (with non-thinned white glue!) 2 layers of aluminium foil onto them. Let them dry and glue them into your tube. Use white glue for that, too. Doesn´t melt away like hot gun glue. Another, more complicated way is to use gypsum. Take a piece of tube which is the same ID as your cardboard tubes and put in a 5mm layer ofthick gypsum. Then take tubes of the desired hole diametre and push them into the gypsum-layer.When dry, just pull them out and you´ve got a durable, fire resistant plate, which is easily glued into your tube.It´s easy to make dozens of them. Just cut enough pieces of plastic tube to fill gypsum into...
Demi Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 You should look into 'baffles' for the exhaust. All the commercial smokes I've used have had a few of these recessed into the top of the tube. I've only ever used chipboard discs with a central hole, but there are other ways... An excerpt from a UKPS topic: Baffles... Best way to produce baffles is to make cardboard end discs and glue (with non-thinned white glue!) 2 layers of aluminium foil onto them. Let them dry and glue them into your tube. Use white glue for that, too. Doesn´t melt away like hot gun glue. Another, more complicated way is to use gypsum. Take a piece of tube which is the same ID as your cardboard tubes and put in a 5mm layer ofthick gypsum. Then take tubes of the desired hole diametre and push them into the gypsum-layer.When dry, just pull them out and you´ve got a durable, fire resistant plate, which is easily glued into your tube.It´s easy to make dozens of them. Just cut enough pieces of plastic tube to fill gypsum into... Thats great! That will work a lot better than what Im doing. Speaking of, I made a big pariffin smoke to take with me. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0413.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0414.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0415.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0416.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0417.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0418.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0419.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0420.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0421.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0422.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0423.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/IMAG0424.jpgMaybe that will help some poor noob like myself. Off to test!!
warthog Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I hope that isn't your kitchen or that you at least have a different place to prepare food. I am a big fan of smokes too so I will check in on this from time to time.I don't have much to add since I am really new to all of this myself, only started last March. 1
Demi Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I hope that isn't your kitchen or that you at least have a different place to prepare food. I am a big fan of smokes too so I will check in on this from time to time.I don't have much to add since I am really new to all of this myself, only started last March. Lol it is my kitchen. I only do the pariffin smokes in there as nothing used is toxic. That said I scrub the crap out of the place when Im done. On to the testing. Learned a lot. Well the first one went FLAWLESSLY. And of course I didnt record it. The rest ignited (even the pariffin one) even with 3 foil baffles. Im not sure how im going to fix this with out making a big exhaust system on top of each smoke. Evidently with the increased size (soup can ones work just fine, this is half coffee can size) the baffles I was using just arent enough. I need to use the slower burn recipe and figure out something better for the tops. For what its worth here are the results. These are videos you just have to click the picture. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/th_VIDEO0032.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/th_VIDEO0031.jpghttp://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Rygaiden/th_VIDEO0029.jpg Edited March 23, 2012 by Demi
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