Colored fountain comps

[pyro92]

Hey guys, thanks to the nice weather and Skylighters Turbo Pyro kit, I've caught the addiction. Anyways, I bought some 8oz fountain tooling and included with it were some colored fountain comp formulas. I hope its ok to post one of the formulas but it will make my question easier.

This is for a red comp:

Red Gum-10

Parlon-20

Magnalium-20

Titanium-15

Strontium nitrate-50

My question is, I know that wetting fountain comps and then granulating them cuts down on dust and everything, but since this comp includes red gum and parlon(why both?) is it meant to be wet and granulated with alcohol?

 

My other question which I thought I understood is, is this a comp that can be rammed? I know there is a chance of sparking with the Ti, but can you lower the risk by ramming a bp based comp first until you pass the spindle, or is there still a risk of the Ti sparking on itself? The reason I ask is because in the TP kit there is a fountain with FeTi and the directions say to ram it.

 

One other question I have is some of the other comps include Barium Nitrate and Cupric Oxide. I know that caution has to be taken with the Barium but is the Cupric oxide also toxic?

Thanks for any help!

[pyrokid]

Parlon is present in many dextrin bound compositions as a chlorine donor. I think it is there to improve the color. Red gum seems to be a fuel.

 

 

 

The general rule of thumb (at least as far as I've heard) is that you shouldn't ram color comps. I don't know how sensitive they are, but it never hurts to be careful.

 

Good luck!

[nater]

I have -gently- rammed that comp with great results. I use BP with no metal for the first increment after the nozzle to avoid ti around the nipple on the tooling. I just screen that comp and use it dry. It is a little dusty, but not too bad at all.

 

[pyro92]

Thanks for all the help guys. I made a batch of the red comp and made a few 2 oz fountains. After giving up on lighting those I made another with a few bp increments rammed first. I finally got that one to light. I'm a little concerned with making some 8 oz fountains with this comp because the pressure seems a little high and I'm afraid it might blow the nozzle. Maybe I'm just being a little paranoid. Also, is there a way to get the color portion to go any higher?

[nater]

If you are having trouble lighting them, ram 1 increment of bp on top of the nozzle, then ram an increment that is 1/2 bp layer and 1/2 gerb comp layer, then top off with the gerb comp. I found it also helps to stick the fuse in, then tamp a little meal powder around the fuse, inside the nozzle area.

 

If there is too much pressure and the nozzle blows out, just make the hole in the nozzle a little bit bigger. If you omit the ti, all you are left with is a very bright red flare. This comp is pretty close a red star comp. The sparks are just the ti. You can replace the ti with anything that makes sparks like charcoal, steel, iron, etc for different effects. The different colored sparks in some gerbs are generally microstars embedded in the gerb fuel.

 

Hope that helps. I like the red and ti myself, blue with charcoal sparks is my next gerb project.

[pyro92]

Ramming an increment of bp before the color comp solved my problem, hopefully it works with the 8oz one as well. I just made one but I'm going to wait for it to get dark before I light it. What comp are you using for the blue, if you don't mind my asking? My plan is to make all the color comps that came with the Wolter Tooling, I just happened to have everything for red so it was the first one I tried.

[Mumbles]

That particular formula is from John Glasswick. He states that he compressed them using only his body weight (210lb at the time) in sizes up to 1 1/2". He does specifically state not to hammer them. This is probably from a general safety aspect as opposed to an experienced accident. He also says to prime them with a 50:50 increment of BP:comp to ensure they light.

 

This came up on another forum a few weeks ago. They were saying that they were able to press nozzles with only their body weight. I really cannot wrap my head around this. Others recommended to press the comp my hand and then ram the nozzle on top. I don't know how John does it. It seems reasonable to me that he rams the nozzle first either as a solid plug, or onto tooling. From there you can press your primes and composition in. The final clay plug sometimes isn't needed. Even so I'd have more confidence with a rammed nozzle and pressed final plug than the other way around. There are also castable compositions or glues that could be used for the final plug.

[pyro92]

That particular formula is from John Glasswick. He states that he compressed them using only his body weight (210lb at the time) in sizes up to 1 1/2". He does specifically state not to hammer them. This is probably from a general safety aspect as opposed to an experienced accident. He also says to prime them with a 50:50 increment of BP:comp to ensure they light.

 

This came up on another forum a few weeks ago. They were saying that they were able to press nozzles with only their body weight. I really cannot wrap my head around this. Others recommended to press the comp my hand and then ram the nozzle on top. I don't know how John does it. It seems reasonable to me that he rams the nozzle first either as a solid plug, or onto tooling. From there you can press your primes and composition in. The final clay plug sometimes isn't needed. Even so I'd have more confidence with a rammed nozzle and pressed final plug than the other way around. There are also castable compositions or glues that could be used for the final plug.

 

Yeah that article was included with the formulas.

I tried compressing the nozzels on the 2oz fountains with my body weight, it seemed to work on the one I tried but I can't say it will work every time. I rammed the nozzle on the 8oz one I made after. I compressed the comp with my weight though. Only problem is it starts to hurt after a while. I compressed the end plug as much as I could with my weight and gently tapped it with a mallet.

[nater]

That particular formula is from John Glasswick. He states that he compressed them using only his body weight (210lb at the time) in sizes up to 1 1/2". He does specifically state not to hammer them. This is probably from a general safety aspect as opposed to an experienced accident. He also says to prime them with a 50:50 increment of BP:comp to ensure they light.

 

It is the same formula Ned uses in this project. He mentions ramming in this project as it is aimed for beginners. I rammed several at Tri-State with him and several others watching, and nobody there expressed any concerns. There were many experienced builders there all weekend and everyone watch watching over each other. I would have hoped if someone felt I was was being unsafe, someone would have spoke up. I'm willing to eat my words and be corrected if anyone sees an issue with how I work. I will stress that when I ram this comp, I do so gently. I ram the nozzle in pretty good, but just use moderate taps until the comp feels solid. Not whacks like you are trying to drive a nail in one or two blows. I also use spherical ti, which I am told is less likely spark with friction. I have a press built now, so I doubt I will ram them again. As for body weight, I'm about 185lb and I cannot get a suitable nozzle using body weight only.

 

For my experiments with blue gerbs, I am planning on pressing G. Smith's Metallic Blue Parlon star as a gerb to see what happens. The other blue gerb comps I've found require AP and hexamine which I don't have on hand right now.

Edited March 19, 2012 by nater

[pyro92]

It is the same formula Ned uses in this project. He mentions ramming in this project as it is aimed for beginners. I rammed several at Tri-State with him and several others watching, and nobody there expressed any concerns. There were many experienced builders there all weekend and everyone watch watching over each other. I would have hoped if someone felt I was was being unsafe, someone would have spoke up. I'm willing to eat my words and be corrected if anyone sees an issue with how I work. I will stress that when I ram this comp, I do so gently. I ram the nozzle in pretty good, but just use moderate taps until the comp feels solid. Not whacks like you are trying to drive a nail in one or two blows. I also use spherical ti, which I am told is less likely spark with friction. I have a press built now, so I doubt I will ram them again. As for body weight, I'm about 185lb and I cannot get a suitable nozzle using body weight only.

 

I rammed all of my 2oz FeTi fountains this weekend, but now that I know I'm going to try and ram them gently like you said. It's hard to press with just your body weight over and over again. What I'm really concerned about is not consolidation the fuel enough and causing a CATO.

 

I also learned Strontium Nitrate is very hygroscopic.

[nater]

I also learned Strontium Nitrate is very hygroscopic.

 

The vendor that I bought my strontium nitrate from suggested that I dry it in an oven at low temperature for several hours, mill it, then store it in ziploc bags with desiccant packs. I did so, and have had no problems with moisture. I have not tried to store these gerbs though.

[pyro92]

Well I just went and made a few more 2oz'ers and tested them to see how much prime is needed to ignite them. One increment of 50/50 mix of bp and comp is plenty. I think the nozzles on the 2oz are too small to let the metal pass through, they only spray sparks right at the beginning. I blew out the nozzle on the second one, it still looked pretty good though.

[Mumbles]

To me, it's not that ramming a composition like these is unsafe. It's more that given other methods I'd chose those first. I've rammed my fair share of gerbs containing titanium and other metals before. I think it's more that this is a metal fueled colored composition more than the fact that it contains metals that would make me shy away from ramming them. As you said, and Ned recommends, he uses light strikes when consolidating everything. That seems very reasonable to me and probably puts only a marginal amount more stress on the comp than pressing.

 

When I think of ramming, I do not normally think of gently tapping a composition. I don't think anyone would recommend that someone really lay into a composition like this.

[pyro92]

Just lit the 8oz fountain. It went good until almost all the way through a hole burned through the side and the comp started coming out the side.

[nater]

Just lit the 8oz fountain. It went good until almost all the way through a hole burned through the side and the comp started coming out the side.

 

Burnout through the side was one thing Ned warned me about when using this comp. With my 1/2" tooling and NEPT tubes, it is about 4 increments of comp before the sidewall burns through. I have not scaled it up myself yet, but I will probably purchase some 1# gerb tooling before PGI and try.

 

Mumbles, I think we're on the same page about ramming. Maybe I should have said tamping in the first place, I am just following and repeating the way I was shown. I'm not brave enough to venture too far out on my own yet.

[pyro92]

Burnout through the side was one thing Ned warned me about when using this comp. With my 1/2" tooling and NEPT tubes, it is about 4 increments of comp before the sidewall burns through. I have not scaled it up myself yet, but I will probably purchase some 1# gerb tooling before PGI and try.

 

Mumbles, I think we're on the same page about ramming. Maybe I should have said tamping in the first place, I am just following and repeating the way I was shown. I'm not brave enough to venture too far out on my own yet.

 

 

 

 

Yeah on the sheet with the formulas it says that if the gerb is going to be longer than 30 seconds then you should use a thicker walled tube. Would burn through still occur if I filled the tube with half of another comp and half of the red comp?

[nater]

Now you are outside my experience with this comp, but there is only one way to find out. I think I would try 2 compatible comps and see what happens. I would save the fierce burning red comp for last, but starting with a charcoal fountain then transition to the red and ti might be neat.

 

Have you been able to try other colors yet? I like experimenting with 4oz gerbs since they take so little comp and dont attract any attention

[pyro92]

Now you are outside my experience with this comp, but there is only one way to find out. I think I would try 2 compatible comps and see what happens. I would save the fierce burning red comp for last, but starting with a charcoal fountain then transition to the red and ti might be neat.

 

Have you been able to try other colors yet? I like experimenting with 4oz gerbs since they take so little comp and dont attract any attention

 

I actually tried making a half FeTi half red fountain today. It ended up being mostly red.

http://youtu.be/QabSiBmXtf4

It's day time but you get the idea.

 

I'd like to use 4oz gerbs but I have the turbo pyro tooling and a bunch of extra tubes so I'm using those instead.

I haven't made any other colors yet, I'm still waiting for some chems to get here so I can. I'm going to try making them with the formulas I have and then combining colors to make others from the skylighter article.

 

I have an 8oz gerb with about 70/30 of 80 mesh comp and red comp w/o Ti ready to go for tonight.

Edited March 21, 2012 by pyro92

[pyro92]

Here is the video for the 8oz charcoal to red.

My camera didn't focus but you get the idea.