Polystyrene Micro-Beads.

[oldguy]

Ran into a small straw diameter tube type sparkler comp in an older US patent (3,862,865).

 

The odd thing is that it contains a considerable volume of very fine polystyrene micro-beads.

 

By weight:

AP 30

Iron powder 10

Fine Polystyrene beads 5

Al powder 2.5

Manganese Dioxide 1.5

Charcoal powder 0.5

Stearic acid 0.5

 

The patent doesn’t explain the exact binder for this particular comp.

 

Instead describing a whole range of binders, including some rather odd ones.

 

My experience is that polystyrene gives off a fairly thick sooty black smoke.

 

So, I wonder why the polystyrene micro-beads are included?

 

Also, polystyrene micro-beads are about as light in weight as balsa air float charcoal.

 

By weight, for instance if you made the comp in ounces.

 

5 ounces of polystyrene micro-beads has considerable volume, which seems very excessive.

 

Ya, Ya….. I know one can patent about anything, so long as it is novel.

 

But, this comp just seems (to me at least) to contain a bad choice of ingredients.

 

Secondly, I wonder what binder would be applicable with polystyrene micro-beads in the mix?

 

Any thoughts or comments.

 

 

[dagabu]

 

Also, polystyrene micro-beads are about as light in weight as balsa air float charcoal.

 

By weight, for instance if you made the comp in ounces.

 

5 ounces of polystyrene micro-beads has considerable volume, which seems very excessive.

 

 

Bean bag chairs.... What a great use for end of life!

 

-dag

[oldguy]

The polystyrene beads in bean bag chairs are much larger than used in this comp.

But, there are polystyrene micro-bead pillows out there with very tiny beads in them.

[Mumbles]

Most common solvents will dissolve polystyrene. Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Toluene, and Xylene will no problem for sure. I don't have any PS handy to test, but I'd be hexanes/heptanes (coleman's white gas) would do the trick too.

 

I do agree it's an odd ingredient. You never know until you try. After reading a little more carefully, they specify 5 micron polystyrene beads. These may not be as light and fluffy as you might be imagining. They're certainly a far cry from the fluffy filler they use for some pillows and stuffed animals. They use the really small ones for chemistry actually. They can immobilize reagents or catalysts on them. This allows you to literally filter off your product or expensive catalyst, which really cuts down on costs in many situations. There is a chance we may have some around the lab that we're certainly not using. If I come across some I'll let you know.

[Zingy]

I am not sure this is of assistance: "Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Toluene, Xylene" and other organic solvents are what makes up general purpose lacquer thinners, sold in auto parts stores, hardware stores, and in the auto departments of K-Marts, ect. Lacquer thinner is a 'Harry Buffalo' of organic solvents, making it almost a universal organic solvent. If you go to a automotive paint store, where they specialize in automotive paints, they have lacquer thinners for various temperature ranges, down to 40 degrees F.

 

Lacquer thinners require more ventilation and respiratory guards. It will also dissolve more than expected. In my not so wise younger years, I put a carburetor in a large can of lacquer thinner, to dissolve the deposits and gasket sealer, and it also dissolved the O-Rings, requiring me to rebuild it.

 

I thought NL, was nitrocellulose, dissolved in lacquer thinner, before coming to this forum, instead of acetone. lacquer thinners, would probably be a better solvent for those attempting to dissolve smokeless powders, with additional ingredients, which is unfavorable.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Zingy

[oldguy]

Most common solvents will dissolve polystyrene. Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Toluene, and Xylene will no problem for sure. I don't have any PS handy to test, but I'd be hexanes/heptanes (coleman's white gas) would do the trick too.

 

I do agree it's an odd ingredient. You never know until you try. After reading a little more carefully, they specify 5 micron polystyrene beads. These may not be as light and fluffy as you might be imagining. They're certainly a far cry from the fluffy filler they use for some pillows and stuffed animals. They use the really small ones for chemistry actually. They can immobilize reagents or catalysts on them. This allows you to literally filter off your product or expensive catalyst, which really cuts down on costs in many situations. There is a chance we may have some around the lab that we're certainly not using. If I come across some I'll let you know.

 

True, 5 microns is tiny, considering table salt runs around 100+ microns.

 

Mesh wise I would think 5 microns is about 2000 mesh

 

Rereading the patent more carefully.

It actually refers to polystyrene as a "binder"

 

Then goes on to say " the binders serve a duel function in that they act to bind together the remaining ingredients into a solid stick that will withstand handling, and further they act as fuels to promote combustion".

 

At first blush, I would think the tiny size would be to insure the polystyrene is thoroughly inter mixed into the dry comp.

But, on 2^nd thought, if a solvent is used to disperse it. The particle size should not make a significant difference.

Edited March 14, 2012 by oldguy

[dagabu]

I am not sure this is of assistance: "Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Toluene, Xylene" and other organic solvents are what makes up general purpose lacquer thinners, sold in auto parts stores, hardware stores, and in the auto departments of K-Marts, ect. Lacquer thinner is a 'Harry Buffalo' of organic solvents, making it almost a universal organic solvent. If you go to a automotive paint store, where they specialize in automotive paints, they have lacquer thinners for various temperature ranges, down to 40 degrees F.

 

Lacquer thinners require more ventilation and respiratory guards. It will also dissolve more than expected. In my not so wise younger years, I put a carburetor in a large can of lacquer thinner, to dissolve the deposits and gasket sealer, and it also dissolved the O-Rings, requiring me to rebuild it.

 

I thought NL, was nitrocellulose, dissolved in lacquer thinner, before coming to this forum, instead of acetone. lacquer thinners, would probably be a better solvent for those attempting to dissolve smokeless powders, with additional ingredients, which is unfavorable.

 

Huh?

 

-dag

[Zingy]

Huh?

 

-dag

 

 

My apologies,

 

 

I must be thinking everyone has been, or currently is a motorhead, (not Lenny Bruce), or gear head, and worked on vehicle restoration, or muscle cars. The point of bringing up lacquer thinners of varying temperatures ratings, has to do with the availability of lacquer thinners of different rates of evaporation. This is for varying climate temperatures and humidity. The lower the temperature rating of the specialized, lacquer thinner, the higher the rate evaporation. The higher the temperature rating of the lacquer thinner, the lower the rate of evaporation.

 

Lacquer thinners generally are an improved solvent over 100% acetone, for a lot of organic compounds, and more economic. I purchased general purpose lacquer thinner, on sale, this year for $9.00/gal., and it was available for $35. for a 5 gal. can.

[oldguy]

Lacquer thinners generally are an improved solvent over 100% acetone, for a lot of organic compounds, and more economic.

I purchased general purpose lacquer thinner, on sale, this year for $9.00/gal., and it was available for $35. for a 5 gal. can.

 

 

Great price.

Was it from an automotive place?

[Zingy]

Yes, it was an vehicle tooling or equipment suppy shop. They sell compressors, sand blasters, spray guns, body repair tooling, air tools, simular to Summit Racing, but smaller, with less vehicle specific parts. Edited March 14, 2012 by Zingy

[oldguy]

I do agree it's an odd ingredient. You never know until you try. After reading a little more carefully, they specify 5 micron polystyrene beads. These may not be as light and fluffy as you might be imagining.

 

Another odd ingedient in that sparkler patent is Methyl methacrylate = acrylic powder.

Also refered to as a "binder".

 

I googled around looking for some at a decent bulk price.

Most results were for expensive female nail polish stuff, or from China by the ton.

 

I wonder if I could use my 12 inch disk sander-grinder to reduce a pound or 2 of clear acrylic scrap to powder & use it.

 

[VintageRacer]

Here's a thought for you, oldguy. A while back I made a "acrylic wash" via information from a friend over at PF. I dissolved some acrylic in acetone. It took a while, probably because of the

saturation of acrylic... but it did eventually dissolve. This is material machined on a CNC machine. I bagged some of it thinking I would send Eugene some but I think he's set with the stuff

that he needs.

 

I'd gladly send you some and save you sanding down material on your sander which would take a while and smell like crap. Maybe make a trade for something though I don't know what

that would be.

 

Let me know if you are interested and I'll mail some to you. Send me mail to racer309@gmail.com

 

This thread caught my eye while searching for a good black smoke composition for some rocket tracking experiments I want to do. Some make stars from this composition and I might

try that myself for one shell, but just ricing/graining it for delay fuel is my real interest to start.

 

KCLO3 - 44

Napthalene - 26

Antimony Trisulfide - 24

Dextrin - 6

 

Dan B

Edited March 15, 2012 by VintageRacer

[WonderBoy]

I would avoid sanding acrylic, it will mostly just melt and gum up your disk. Do you have a jointer? If you run it through the jointer you will get fairly fine particles, then maybe blade mill after that? I wonder if it would mill down very well in a ball mill?

 

Dan,

For black smoke I used to use:

Potassium perchlorate 56

Anthracene 33 (I used Naphthalene instead, subbed 1:1)

Sulfur 11

 

I think it is from Shimizu, I didn't write down the source. It makes a thick black smoke, but I never tried making stars or using it as a delay, just dumped it in a paper cup.

 

 

WB

[dagabu]

Here's a thought for you, oldguy. A while back I made a "acrylic wash" via information from a friend over at PF. I dissolved some acrylic in acetone. It took a while, probably because of the

saturation of acrylic... but it did eventually dissolve. This is material machined on a CNC machine. I bagged some of it thinking I would send Eugene some but I think he's set with the stuff

that he needs.

 

I'd gladly send you some and save you sanding down material on your sander which would take a while and smell like crap. Maybe make a trade for something though I don't know what

that would be.

 

Let me know if you are interested and I'll mail some to you. Send me mail to racer309@gmail.com

 

This thread caught my eye while searching for a good black smoke composition for some rocket tracking experiments I want to do. Some make stars from this composition and I might

try that myself for one shell, but just ricing/graining it for delay fuel is my real interest to start.

 

KCLO3 - 44

Napthalene - 26

Antimony Trisulfide - 24

Dextrin - 6

 

Dan B

 

That's funny Dan, Eugene's post found me making 2L of the same stuff. It is fantastic for water proofing stuff but it didn't work for a binder at all

 

-dag

[oldguy]

I would avoid sanding acrylic, it will mostly just melt and gum up your disk. Do you have a jointer? If you run it through the jointer you will get fairly fine particles, then maybe blade mill after that? I wonder if it would mill down very well in a ball mill?

 

You were 100% right.

After replacing the gummed up disk.

I removed the sawdust catcher from my table saw.

Sat a clean cardboard box in place & ran some acrylic scrap through it.

It took a little while, but I managed to collect a considerable amount of fine acrylic sawdust.

[oldguy]

5 gallons in volume of tiny polystyrene beads doesn't even weight a full pound.

Plus acts like air float charcoal in that it wants to float around & is effected by static, thus clings to about everything.

 

Edited March 18, 2012 by oldguy

[JFeve81]

Don't sneeze. Would like like it snowed.

[oldguy]

Don't sneeze. Would like like it snowed.

 

You got that one right.

Worse than snow, because it doesn't melt away at room temps.

if a kid, cat or dog tore up a bag of this stuff, it would be hell to pay to clean up.