whitewolf_573 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I have some doubts about the process of make bp in the ball mill . I read that is neccesary to ball mill the bp slightly moistened, because you obtain a better bp. (i read it in http://www.vk2zay.net/article.php/74 , is about black powder moistening ) What do you think about it ? Another thing , how many time , i have to ball mill the bp ( i suposse the more hours , better). Is good to ball mill previously the charcoal , about 3 hours , for make it more fine , no ? To make the bp , i should mix it previously , for example whit the diapering or Screening method , and then when is homogeneous, ball mill it . ¿ correct , no ? After do it , it is recomended to lift it , no ? , for a general use (fountains , and things like this ) what is the mesh recomended ? . What i know what is the suitable container for the correct mesh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 It’s not necessary to moisten the BP but it is said to help, it may also reduce the risk of it igniting during the milling.I personally don’t think you need to but that’s just my opinion. With the milling time do it as long as you want do tests see how it turns out. It really all depends on the size of your milling jar, size of the batch of BP, size of media and how much media you have in your jar, as I said do some test. For fountains rockets ect use meal powder straight from the milling jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I've never moistened my BP, after measuring the chemicals I just pour them straight into the milling jar dry. I have a small ball mill, and I can't do batches over 200grams or the motor won't turn the jar with all the lead balls in it. Use only lead balls for BP! not steel. I use .40caliber lead balls for black powder rifles as the grinding media and I mill my BP for a minimum of 4 hrs. Consistency is the key. Like rocket said, do some tests and once you get a process down that's good for you, stick with that every time so that your BP will burn consistently. A good rule of thumb for loading a jar is it should be 1/2 full of media and 1/4 full of chemicals. I believe that's the optimum loading of a milling jar. This will produce your meal-d which is the starting point for everything else, like lift powder, or mixing with other chems for stars and priming, etc. You can use straight meal-d without doing anything else to it for black powder rockets and fountains. Try starting with some of these projects. oops, I see Rocket just said the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe609 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 When i first started milling BP it came out all dry as this was in the summer and burnt well however when the colder months came round when it was humid whenever i took my mill of and opened the lid the BP would be slightly moist and not so dusty. When i compared the two, the moist powder burnt quite alot faster and was more convinient as it would not spray up dust when i poured it into my sieve. So in short i think you should give dampening a go and see if it works best for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I personally always dampen. I've always had good results. It may get kinda clumpy, but the powder always burns great. I usually mill for 8-10 hours. My jar is undercharged with media, so it takes some extra time. As for premilling I don't do it. However in more industrial applications I would recomend it. The less time the KNO3 is combined with the fuels, the less of a chance of ignition it has. For small scale home use though, I don't think it's worth the extra trouble though. If you are safety minded, you might want to give it a try though, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmac Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 As I understand damping makes it more powerful because the moisture causes the nitrates to leech more thoroughly into everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolf_573 Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Greatings to all. One thing , how many media i should use , i read that is 1/2 of the mass or the volume of the container. I have a cylinder of 90 mm diameter and 25 cm of length. I have 200 lead balls of 9 mm Diameter. Perhaps i could obtain another 300 lead balls today. If i have less than is recomended , what it happens? Perhaps , is neccesary to use the ball mill more hours to obtain a good black powder ? ( instead of four hours , 7 or 8 , to obtain a good bp) I think that i have read , that one member of the forum don´t use media , and only have to use the ball mill more hours than the "normal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 If you have less than the recommended amount then it would just take longer to mill up some fast BP.Just fill you’re milling jar half full with media, if the ball mill can handle the weight ad a few more. If you’re referring to Mumbles post “My jar is undercharged with media, so it takes some extra time.” What he means buy that is the milling jar doesn’t have enough media in it to be efficient for an example its ¼ full when it should be ½ full. All this means is it takes more time to get fast BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximusg Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Yeah consistancy is pretty important, it allows you to not have to do tests and stuff when loading rockets, drivers etc. which saves alot of time. for me its sandy consistancy kno3, even grainier sulfur, and lump willow charcoal straight in the mill for five hours, for very hot lift. one of my consistant methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolf_573 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 I have made my first 400 g of black powder , that today will be milled , later . I just weight 300g ( 75 x 4) , and put it crushed in a news paper , i weigth the 60 g of charcoal , and the 40 g of Sulfur. I used the diaper metod for a few minutes to mix it some, then i put it in a container , and dampen with 24 g of water (4 x 6 g). I put it in the jar , and when i was to ball mill it , i discover that it was son late , that it was better to do it today ( in 30 min i was in the bed ). I will ball mill it for about four hours , and see results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewest Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Good luck, let us know how it turned out. But I didn't see you mention the potassium nitrate; you didn't forget that did you? And also, if you're going to put the chemicals in a milling jar and ball mill it, mixing it first by the diaper method is kind of irrelevant. The ball mill will crush and mix it better than you could by hand anyway. You can save a step by just weighing out the chemicals and putting them straight into the mill jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hst45 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 ewest is right, just toss the components in the mill and let it do the work. You migt find that 4 hrs is on the short side to mill the fastest BP. Why not run the mill for 4 hrs and take a 10 gm. sample, continue to run the mill for 2 more hrs., take another sample, etc. In my experience increasing the milling time will go a long way to increasing speed. I mill for 6 hrs minimum, but for the very fastest powder I have found that milling for up 16hrs increases the burn rate. Milling longer yields no appreciable increase. Results from various mills/media will vary, and in my case I beleive that my particular setup is pretty inefficient, so I just go for longer time. To test the speed of the milled powder I use my side by side burn rate tester. I milled two parallel 1/4" by 1/4" saw kerfs in a 1X6. I fill each groove with the two powders and light them simultaniously. This gives me consistant, empirical burn rate data instead of my old "it looked faster to me" method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolf_573 Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Yes , i put the Kn03 , but i din't say it I dampen my bp , and i put more than 5 % of water (about 9 % ) because i thougth that 5 % was too little. I didn't see it wet . But , now i know that 5 % is the maximun that should be used , if you don't want to see the bp sticks to the wall of the jar... As i will do some pyrotechnic display on halloween , and i have to do fountains , fuses and like , i will make today another 400 g of bp , but only slightly dampen !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanotherpyro Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I usually mill over night without wetting. My jar is charged very well with homemade media, and the powder clumps anyways. I usually do upwards of 700grams at a time. It makes excelent meal depending on the charcoal used ( newspaper C rocks ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshot Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I mill my BP dry. I add the chems 75/15/10 and mill in my loretone tumbler overnight. I'm using brass media 3/8" dia. rod 1/2" long. The result is an airfloat meal BP like talcum powder, no clumps. I don't dampen the comp when milling but grain it with 75% H20 25% alchohol. I think this pretty much has the same effect as dampenning the comp when milling. It improves the speed of the powder by leaching the KNO3 into the charcoal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imgnarly Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 When I make my bp I use a rock tumbler and I fill it with steel media and have never had a problem I took a steel cylinder and chopped it up and it didnt spark in the least so some kinds of stainless steel dont spark. and for milling time I just put the jar on before I go to bed and empty it after I wake up or after school on the folowing day. I have never tried wet milling I will try since everyone seems to have such good results with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itwasntme Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 When I make my bp I use a rock tumbler and I fill it with steel media and have never had a problem I took a steel cylinder and chopped it up and it didnt spark in the least so some kinds of stainless steel dont spark. and for milling time I just put the jar on before I go to bed and empty it after I wake up or after school on the folowing day. I have never tried wet milling I will try since everyone seems to have such good results with it Unless you have a special kind of steel media, you're going to have an accident. Steel sparks, alot! Please, for the sake of saftey don't use steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluterocket Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 stainless steel just means the iron is removed, it doesnt mean it wont spark, it may even make it spark more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imgnarly Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 My media doesnt spark I cut a rod with a jigsaw and tried to get it to spark with an angle grinder or whatever its called and it wouldn't and I have been making bp for over a year with no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Wow, you guys are retarded. #1 I wouldn't use steel, it will spark eventually. There are some forms of stainless steel which are spark resistant, but overtime it loses that resistance. #2 Saluterocket, see the top statement, and go read about stainless steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedin label Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Wow, you guys are retarded. #1 I wouldn't use steel, it will spark eventually. There are some forms of stainless steel which are spark resistant, but overtime it loses that resistance. #2 Saluterocket, see the top statement, and go read about stainless steel. Put well Mumbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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