oldguy Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 This is a charcoal large fire dust fountain garden display. It appears near smokeless & is said to be long lasting. Any idea what the comp is?
warthog Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I would guess a modification of the basic BP formula plus some large mesh charcoal (80 mesh is what I use most) added for the nice red/gold sparks.
Mumbles Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 If it's smokeless, it's definitely not BP based. Smokeless fountains are made from very carefully balanced AP formulas or nitrocellulose. I believe you can just add coarse C to NC for the sparks. It definitely works with Ti and FeTi.
warthog Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I suppose I missed the smokeless... my bad... again. don't suppose you have a formula like that you could share with us Mumbles... Edited March 3, 2012 by warthog
Peret Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 You could start with 60% AP, 30% hexamine and 10% of your chosen spark material - charcoal, iron, titanium etc. I'm sure that's not stochiometric, it's just a starting guess.
Seymour Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Ammonium perchlorate is only smokeless in very low humidity. If it's muggy the HCl seeded mist is lush and voluminous, and in my opinion above average is smokeyness. For smokeless gold sparks the chances are you'll be using Iron or it's aloys. With nitrocellulose of the right grade... you'll need it to be more energetic than much of the stuff around, it's as simple as adding fine steel, 10% would be a good start, and pressing. I get that charcoal fire dust effect by simply ramming 60% Potassium nitrate, 30% Charcoal and 10% Sulfur rocket in to tubes, choked or unchoked, choking increases spark height, and shortens duration. Not that my method is any special at all, I just happen to have a bucket of the stuff, it burns well, and works. 1-2% fine Titanium in there looks quite magic.
dan999ification Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 the charcoal firedust will be smoky even if the base comp is not,it may be metal. is it possible that in the picture most of the smoke is being eaten by the heat/fire from the fountains below? or elevated by the heat/hayesi have had over 30 secs from rammed bp based fountain not too different from60/30/10 and never been smoked out but i imagine if you made 6or7 bigguns that would be different.how long burning, these can get boring after a while in a garden display. dan.
dagabu Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 If it's smokeless, it's definitely not BP based. Smokeless fountains are made from very carefully balanced AP formulas or nitrocellulose. I believe you can just add coarse C to NC for the sparks. It definitely works with Ti and FeTi. We made a dozen flame projectors for the fall shoot and though they didn't work well, the smoke output was very minimal. The base was military smokeless powder that looked a whole lot like Green Dot and Red Dot powders mixed together. It would be an interesting experiment to see if that powder mixed with some metal and compressed would deliver the same effect? -dag
dan999ification Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 We made a dozen flame projectors for the fall shoot and though they didn't work well, the smoke output was very minimal. The base was military smokeless powder that looked a whole lot like Green Dot and Red Dot powders mixed together. It would be an interesting experiment to see if that powder mixed with some metal and compressed would deliver the same effect? -dag burns quite slow unconfined but we all know how that can change, it might do if well choked. dan.
NightHawkInLight Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Those look like typical BP based fountains to me. They certainly don't look smokeless. Granted, the large particle charcoal that is projected into the sky will convert to invisible CO2 with no smoke whatsoever, just like on a BBQ. The only thing that will produce smoke in a BP fountain is the reaction of the nitrate with the smaller particle fuels that are used to throw the large charcoal into the sky. Unless you really need smokeless for whatever reason, it's kind of silly to try to replicate one of the cheapest and easiest to work with comps out there with something that takes much more prep and is tenfold the price.
warthog Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Redacted. Mistake for me to post like I did. Edited March 12, 2012 by warthog
Potassiumchlorate Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 Seems like a nice comp. AP based compositions are also very good for blue fountains/lances. Where do you guys get stearine? Do you shave candles or can you buy pure stearic acid? I know no source for pure stearic acid here in Europe, so I have to shave candles to get stearine. Pyroguide says that you can make 100 grams "in an evening", though it took me at least two hours to shave off 15 grams or so.
warthog Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 You can buy stearine pretty readily here in the USA. It is fairly inexpensive as well.
Potassiumchlorate Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 Hm, I found stearine now. Have never seen it by a pyro supplier, though. About €14/kg.
oldguy Posted March 12, 2012 Author Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Link for Strearine in the UK.http://www.enaissanc.../info_3767.html Most candle making supply or craft stores anywhere carry it. It's all over ebay in the USA. http://www.ebay.com/...=item53e7a25e7b Plus other places in bulk. http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bstearic+%2Bacid&gclid=CNOPlpLd4a4CFWsaQgodRCnZWQ Edited March 12, 2012 by oldguy
Potassiumchlorate Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 Hm, but that is in flakes. Big ones. I have found other sources too, but it's not clear whether it's flakes or a fine powder.
oldguy Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 Hm, but that is in flakes. Big ones. I have found other sources too, but it's not clear whether it's flakes or a fine powder. Since it is very much like wax, I don't think you will find it in FINE powder form.I would think fine powder would just clump up into big balls.
optimus Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I have 'Stearic acid' and 'Stearin' from candle making. Both large flakes, never seen it available as a powder. The trick is to freeze then whizz in a coffee grinder.
bob Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 I made a fountian a few days ago and it worked pretty good it was just a small 1/2 ID by 4 inches long I was using the 60/26/14 ratio and I would like to add some larger charcoal to make longer lasting sparks I would be adding 24 mesh to it and the rest would be airfloat but I don't know how much 24 mesh I can add would some thin like this work? 60 parts potassium nitrate, 16 parts airfloat charcoal 10 parts 24 mesh charcoal, 14 parts sulpher Thanks
warthog Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) I made a fountian a few days ago and it worked pretty good it was just a small 1/2 ID by 4 inches long I was using the 60/26/14 ratio and I would like to add some larger charcoal to make longer lasting sparks I would be adding 24 mesh to it and the rest would be airfloat but I don't know how much 24 mesh I can add would some thin like this work? 60 parts potassium nitrate, 16 parts airfloat charcoal 10 parts 24 mesh charcoal, 14 parts sulpher Thanks10%. I would say this will give you what you're looking for without replacing the airfloat, add it to the regular mix on top of it. I use that sort of basic BP fountain mix a lot too and I simply add my spark maker on top of the full formula mixture. I add up to ten percent. Works with metals as well as charcoal. Edited May 29, 2012 by warthog
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