Potassiumchlorate Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Before the composition sticks to the lead shots, they will clump. Once coated with a thin layer of composition they will roll very good. In metal fueled stars the lead core will definitely melt/vapourize.
dan999ification Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Millet isn't bad really, if you make it right. It is good to mix into breads too. It is truly poor folks food though, the kind of poor like the protruding bellies from starvation in Africa poor. Saw that and ate millet in the Peace Corps and it makes me ashamed to be fat. the shiny shell probably helps it not to stick together but may trouble you getting comp onit is undigestable until you cook it, or pass it, ive read of it being given to african prisoners raw, work the rest out for yourself, torture.have you heard/tried qui noa, in most health food shops or whole food section in supermarkets, i was gonna give it a go and someone here used it. dan.
DanielC Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Food grade millet like we buy has no hull. Birdseed millet still has the hull most times.I remember seeing a video where the guy was rolling big batches of stars with some type of seed core, but it was maybe 1/8"-3/16". He had them soaking in a container full of water. He drained the water off and just threw them into the roller. It looked to be a decent sized commercial shop where he was working. One of the visitors that was filming asked what it was, but the guy didn't know (or just didn't want to say). I wondered what it was, but I have no need for cores that size...Yet. Anyway, some lead shot has a wax coat or some type of lubricant on them especially if you're cutting them out of your shotgun shells. You can wet them and dust with clay and it should pick up comp easily. I prefer a seed core like millet because of cost and availabilty. Lead is definitely easier to get started and get to decent size quickly.
pyrokid Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Food grade millet like we buy has no hull. Birdseed millet still has the hull most times.I remember seeing a video where the guy was rolling big batches of stars with some type of seed core, but it was maybe 1/8"-3/16". He had them soaking in a container full of water. He drained the water off and just threw them into the roller. It looked to be a decent sized commercial shop where he was working. One of the visitors that was filming asked what it was, but the guy didn't know (or just didn't want to say). I wondered what it was, but I have no need for cores that size...Yet. Anyway, some lead shot has a wax coat or some type of lubricant on them especially if you're cutting them out of your shotgun shells. You can wet them and dust with clay and it should pick up comp easily. I prefer a seed core like millet because of cost and availabilty. Lead is definitely easier to get started and get to decent size quickly. I believe I have seen that video. They were molecular sieves.
warthog Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Quinoa is really good stuff, has a sort of nutty flavor. Again makes a really tasty bread as well. Another grain I have eaten a lot of as a matter of fact. I have had others tell me to try molecular sieves as well. They tell me these are all they use for cores when they use a non-star core. I think they aren't very expensive either. I speak of little experience with the things. I really haven't used them in the proper way except in college a couple of times and that was a few years ago. Edited March 2, 2012 by warthog
dagabu Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Quinoa is really good stuff, has a sort of nutty flavor. Again makes a really tasty bread as well. Another grain I have eaten a lot of as a matter of fact. I have had others tell me to try molecular sieves as well. They tell me these are all they use for cores when they use a non-star core. I think they aren't very expensive either. I speak of little experience with the things. I really haven't used them in the proper way except in college a couple of times and that was a few years ago. There are a few commercial firework makers in the USA that use molecular sieves to start cores. -dag
Mumbles Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 If you want to try them, this company sells them. Extremely nice guy too. http://www.pnjresources.com/Molecular%20Sieves.html
dagabu Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 If you want to try them, this company sells them. Extremely nice guy too. http://www.pnjresour...r%20Sieves.html LOL! In fact, he sent me a free sample and I still have a third of them left. They make a whole lot of stars. -dag
warthog Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 If you want to try them, this company sells them. Extremely nice guy too. http://www.pnjresour...r%20Sieves.html Thanks Mumbles, I will check them out too. I am the sort who tries everything and once I have I pick that which not only worked best for me but is also easily paid for and readily available. PLUS, can't I use molecular sieves to dry my alcohol and acetone which tends to suck the humidity out of the air no matter how tight the top is or where I store it...
Bcorso85 Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Hey guys. I just wanted to chime in and let you know I roll with Israeli CousCous pasta. I got to the grocery store and get 1000's for $7.00 the Israeli ones are larger than the Moroccan pasta which is like pastina. The cores stick a little in the beginning but after that you're fine.
qba200 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Guys, have you experienced the problem with rolling stars, that you roll lots of small stars (up to 5mm), and only about 10% of rolled stars grow higher then 5mm? I'm experiencing all the time this problem, ive got like 500g of stars sized like to be cores, then normal stars. The problem is that beside stars with core, many stars is formed coreless. How to fight with it, and get less starts, but bigger? what am i doing wrong? Edited June 2, 2012 by qba200
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Guys, have you experienced the problem with rolling stars, that you roll lots of small stars (up to 5mm), and only about 10% of rolled stars grow higher then 5mm? I'm experiencing all the time this problem, ive got like 500g of stars sized like to be cores, then normal stars. The problem is that beside stars with core, many stars is formed coreless. How to fight with it, and get less starts, but bigger? what am i doing wrong? I still have that problem now and then. It's 2½ years since I rolled my first stars, and at that time it seemed that I learned how to do it well. Everything you mention still happens, though. Though stars not being uniform in size is something that happens even to the most skilled.
Arthur Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I've been in a professional firework factory and seen them roll stars with NO core. Tip the powder in the drum, get it mixing well then just damp the top and little balls form and grow, keep misting lightly as the balls take up the powder. They stopped at several sizes and dried the stars then repeated to get big stars.
bonkers Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Rolling less than a few 1000 and using a small roller is a lot more difficult than making large batches at once.For rolling on a small scale, I suggest using heavy cores like lead shot or preferably steel and keep them rolling for a longer time per amount of powder added.Make sure all the loose powder is on the cores before adding more composition. As you get familiar with different compositions you like best you can think about rolling larger batches (2000+) and building a better star roller, this makes it a lot easier to get consistent stars.In my tire roller I can make very consistent stars, with 90%+ being the size I aim for with an accuracy of about 0.1mm.I get the stars out at 4 or 5 mm and dry them, later i can add the same or another color. Once at this size, it's a lot easier to roll smaller batches.Like that you can store for example 5 different base colors, and complete them later in smaller quantities.I have built 5 star rollers now, with the passfire tire roller being the best one so far for large batches. Rolling with a diluted Isopropanol mixture (first 50%, later 25%) for dextrin bound stars gives the best results for me.Reading Shimizu FAST is very recommended, the toro method described is a very good method for sure. Rolling without cores as Arthur says is next to impossible on a small scale IMO. Remember too that every composition behaves a bit different than the other, especially charcoal based ones vs. normal colored ones. Edited June 3, 2012 by bonkers
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I know that Bleser said that you should roll at least 400 stars, even if it is on a smaller scale. I roll either on microstars or on lead shots, but both are difficult. Recently I sprayed the lead shots with paint to get a surface with more "grip", but it's still hard to roll the first layer.
Seymour Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I've stopped using cores for big (twenty to two hundred kilo) batches and do something similar to what Arthur describes, though I give it a kick start by pre dampening and granulating. Rolling corelass is very common commercially, if not 100% standard. As with all things here, it's easier to make cores this way for 200kg stars than it is for 20kg. Personally, I think starting coreless, or with cores like seeds, rolling is a very bad choice with small batches (less than a few kilos). It will take less time, and less frustration to cut a few hundred 3mm or so cut stars, and use them as cores, much like in a few Japanese manufacture videos, or like how Shimizu describes the manufacture of strobe star cores. Bonkers, have you tried doing away with the alcohol completely? Perhaps not the 25% IPA solution, but I cannot help but think the 50% IPA step will do bad things to your star strength.
Zumber Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I have made small star roller with hand drill machineand i was making round star using mustard as core and used water spraying bottle.My problem is that while making star,star composition deposited on inner phephery of drum and becomes wet and star diameter increases very very slowly.Any help would be appreciated.
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Add less composition. Use less water. (I agree that rolling isn't easy at first. I'm still not very skilled at it, although I roll by hand.)
Zumber Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Add less composition. Use less water. (I agree that rolling isn't easy at first. I'm still not very skilled at it, although I roll by hand.)thanx.
Seymour Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Unfortunately the start is very slow and that is just the way it is. As Potassiumchlorate mentioned, using less of everything per increment is ideal at first, and adding too much composition or water can cause a lot of time wasted in damage control. You can skip the slow start by cutting stars as cores. In small batches, if you are making coloured stars, using parlon as the binder is very convenient, and at the correct consistency it is very easy to cut it in to even sized pieces with a sharp knife or scissors. In larger batches this gets too expensive and the solvent fume dangers become more worrying, so, like with charcoal streamers and glitters, using water as the solvent is preferred. Even as cubes (or often in my case, angular lumps) the discipline of the roller will make them almost perfectly round if you keep rolling them and increasing them in size. I suggest Drying them after cutting, and also several times during the process, depending on the size you are going to make them end up at.
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) The ones you bind with parlon are usually expensive as they are. Shimizu Red Brilliant will cost at least €10/kg for me. But for each kilo I will need acetone for €2-3, since you need at least 350ml acetone for 1kg of composition. Water is free, and for 1kg of dextrin bound composition you'll only need 20-25ml of alcohol to decrease the surface tension of the 60-75ml water needed (adding up to 80-100ml all in all). Edited June 19, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
otto Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Seems like as good a place to jump in as any........ new guy, first post. A: Priceless info for anyone looking to foray into the pyrotechnic universe. B: Anyone use corncob blasting media for cores? Might there be another use? I've got access to quite a lot of that....... Thanks for being here! /m
dagabu Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Seems like as good a place to jump in as any........ new guy, first post. A: Priceless info for anyone looking to foray into the pyrotechnic universe. B: Anyone use corncob blasting media for cores? Might there be another use? I've got access to quite a lot of that....... Thanks for being here! /m Welcome Otto, I hope you enjoy it here. I have not used corncob for cores, I use crackle or star chips for cores. -dag
Jason Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Seems like as good a place to jump in as any........ new guy, first post. A: Priceless info for anyone looking to foray into the pyrotechnic universe. B: Anyone use corncob blasting media for cores? Might there be another use? I've got access to quite a lot of that....... Thanks for being here! /m I have used corn cob as a core, imho it's too big of a core to use. Especially if you are shooting 3" or smaller.
Potassiumchlorate Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I sometimes use leadshots as cores, but I think it's questionable in organic compositions. At least on the ground the leadshots will not melt. Metallic lead doesn't pose a great danger to environment, but if you still don't want to use it there are bismuth shots available. In Europe some suppliers also sell steel cores, typically 1-1.4mm. Edited July 2, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
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