Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 What do you think about it? I have trouble consolidating parlon bound stars containing hexamine. It seems like they are "swelling".
dagabu Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Straight from a manufacturers website: "Hexamine is not hygroscopic. However, itis sensitive to humidity and absorbsmoisture at a relative humidity above 65%,causing binding or clogging.P r e s s u r e a n d wa rmt h i n c r e a s e t h elikelihood of the product forming lumps.This effect is more pronounced with finegrained products.Above all, this has a negative effect on theflow properties of the ground product. Theproduct should therefore be best stored ina room with a constant temperature and arelative humidity below 60%. Likewise,there should be as little pressure on theproduct as possible (i.e. do not stackpallets on top of each other)" -dag
pyrojig Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 sounds like a oxymoron of a statement ... Not hygorscopic , but absorbs water, and sensitive to humidity .....,,,,,Huh,,,,,,,,sounds hygroscopic if you ask me...
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) sounds like a oxymoron of a statement ...../../public/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif Not hygorscopic , but absorbs water, and sensitive to humidity .....,,,,,Huh,,,,,,,,sounds hygroscopic if you ask me...../../public/style_emoticons/default/dry2.gif I agree, but it should be pretty easy to drive the water out of it, shouldn't it? It's an excellent fuel and flame enlarger. The relative air humidity here is very high most of the year, but I keep it in a plastic can. Maybe the lid isn't tight enough. It's the kind of hexamine with a slight smell of "fish". Edited February 17, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
dagabu Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 sounds like a oxymoron of a statement ... Not hygorscopic , but absorbs water, and sensitive to humidity .....,,,,,Huh,,,,,,,,sounds hygroscopic if you ask me... Strange ins't it? One better: Deliquescent -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Deliquescent is when something is very hygroscopic, like strontium chlorate (and that is a shame for sure) or calcium chloride. Edited February 17, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
dagabu Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Deliquescent is when something is very hygroscopic, like strontium chlorate (and that is a shame for sure) or calcium chloride. Yes it is a shame. Imagine what you could do with Sr(ClO3)2 if it would stay dry? Edited February 17, 2012 by dagabu
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 Yes it is a shame. Imagine what you could do with Sr(ClO3)2 if it would stay dry? The most lovely red without any metal fuels.
50AE Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 If it's possible for some of you, you should try Sr(BrO3)2 red. It's the deepest I've seen, done bu chemistry students that can get bromate for free. Anyway, it's much more expensive and... quite reactive.
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 I think that I could get hold of potassium bromate. Can I react it with any strontium salt to make strontium bromate?
warthog Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 The only time the relative humidity is above 60% around here is in the summertime. The rest f the time our air is quite dry relatively. As for this statement being oxymoronic, it really isn't if you look at it closely. A hygroscopic chemical will draw moisture from even relatively dry air, it just has more affinity for the water than the air does so it moves where it is drawn. High humidity however is what drives this reaction. In dry conditions this isn't going to happen apparently. I haven't used Hexamine much yet but I do plan on doing so this year. There are a number of formulae I have been looking at that either call for it or something I can no longer find but Hexamine is a good replacement for so I have some on hand now. No matter what the hygrosopicity of a given chemical that I keep around, I store it in a controlled environment and within a sealed bucket (the buckets have Gamma Seals for lids). Each chemical is then stored within its own "Tupperware" type tub inside which it is contained in a zip lock type plastic bag. Each bucket has a large moisture absorbing sachet in it which has a rechargeable desiccant in it. If it is something extremely hygroscopic, I also place a smaller packet of the desiccant into the smaller tub outside of the zip lock baggie. Was a PITA at first to get it all in order but since doing it I don't have trouble with moisture in any chemicals. Any sorts of items to be stored, should they be hygroscopic like a Strontium Nitrate star or whatever, I store in a similar manner, though outdoors in a magazine (a friend's for now).
50AE Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I think that I could get hold of potassium bromate. Can I react it with any strontium salt to make strontium bromate? The problem is KBrO3 is less soluble than Sr(BrO3)2. You must use another, more soluble bromate, magnesium for example.Or you can try to electrolyse SrBr2 solution Edited February 17, 2012 by 50AE
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 The problem is KBrO3 is less soluble than Sr(BrO3)2. You must use another, more soluble bromate, magnesium for example.Or you can try to electrolyse SrBr2 solution Oh, typical. My ideal would be to make red and green stars with barium perchlorate and strontium perchlorate and hexamine as the fuel. As long as there is no possibility to "seal" every star individually, that would be impossible to do, though.
pyrojig Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Not to steer off topic, but I have som strontium perch. that may make for some amazing reds... So what is the diif between the chlorate v.s. perch of this salt?
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 Not to steer off topic, but I have som strontium perch. that may make for some amazing reds... So what is the diif between the chlorate v.s. perch of this salt? Not much what the colour concerns. The problem is that both are highly hygroscopic (as far as I know; the chlorate is for sure), but if you could make something useful of the strontium perchlorate, it would be terrific.
allrocketspsl Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 your adding water or alcahol anyway to the comp.I have made many parlon bound just have to work fast.Screen slice is best i feel.All
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Kind of the point to bind with parlon is to make the stars waterproof. If hexamine is hygroscopic, which it seems to be, it would be better to dry it thorougly and then bind the stars with parlon. I know a guy who has parlon stars from 1994. He can hold them under the water hose for several minutes and then just wipe them dry with paper and use them immediately - 18 year old stars! If one should bind with dextrin or SGRS, though, it'd be needed to cut some parlon. If just adding +4% binder, the composition would be (rounded off to half percents): Potassium perchlorate 59.5Copper(II)oxide 12.5Hexamine 9.5Parlon 14.5Dextrin or SGRS 4 That is by far too little potassium perchlorate for me. You can't cut away much copper(II)oxide, since the copper content is just about right (it should be between 7 and 14% all in all and it is 10.4%). You can't cut away much hexamine, because the whole point with the use of hexamine is to have an energetic oxygen-free fuel and flame enlarger. You can however cut away some parlon without starving the composition on chlorine: Potassium perchlorate 62Copper(II)oxide 13Hexamine 10Parlon 11Dextrin or SGRS 4 Edited February 18, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
dagabu Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Kind of the point to bind with parlon is to make the stars waterproof. If hexamine is hygroscopic, which it seems to be, it would be better to dry it thorougly and then bind the stars with parlon. I know a guy who has parlon stars from 1994. He can hold them under the water hose for several minutes and then just wipe them dry with paper and use them immediately - 18 year old stars! If one should bind with dextrin or SGRS, though, it'd be needed to cut some parlon. If just adding +4% binder, the composition would be (rounded off to half percents): Potassium perchlorate 59.5Copper(II)oxide 12.5Hexamine 9.5Parlon 14.5Dextrin or SGRS 4 That is by far too little potassium perchlorate for me. You can't cut away much copper(II)oxide, since the copper content is just about right (it should be between 7 and 14% all in all and it is 10.4%). You can't cut away much hexamine, because the whole point with the use of hexamine is to have an energetic oxygen-free fuel and flame enlarger. You can however cut away some parlon without starving the composition on chlorine: Potassium perchlorate 62Copper(II)oxide 13Hexamine 10Parlon 11Dextrin or SGRS 4 Looks like we got hung up on hygroscopy v.s. a tendency to hold water, moot is the point so lets move on to the parlon idea. Parlon, is a plastic of sorts, if you were to use fresh acetone in a very dry environment to dissolve the parlon, the resulting coating on the star would essentially make it waterproof and thus encapsulating the hexamine making any concerns of water v.s. hexamine disappear. -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Looks like we got hung up on hygroscopy v.s. a tendency to hold water, moot is the point so lets move on to the parlon idea. Parlon, is a plastic of sorts, if you were to use fresh acetone in a very dry environment to dissolve the parlon, the resulting coating on the star would essentially make it waterproof and thus encapsulating the hexamine making any concerns of water v.s. hexamine disappear. -dag I know. The thing is that if it is hygroscopic, I most dry it first. I have had it for at least seven years in a plastic can with a not so very tight lid. It sublimes at 280oC, so I'd guess that it can be dried in the oven.
allrocketspsl Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 your using acetone dried out to bind the parlon
dagabu Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I know. The thing is that if it is hygroscopic, I most dry it first. I have had it for at least seven years in a plastic can with a not so very tight lid. It sublimes at 280oC, so I'd guess that it can be dried in the oven. Have you ever used an oven to dry out Hexamine? If not, you are in for a surprise! The stink it makes will stay around the house for weeks, it smells like cat pee to me others have a different nose but most everyone agrees that it stinks! -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Have you ever used an oven to dry out Hexamine? If not, you are in for a surprise! The stink it makes will stay around the house for weeks, it smells like cat pee to me others have a different nose but most everyone agrees that it stinks! -dag I know the smell. I have extracted it from Esbit tablets before I had the pure chemical. That's OK. What's important is that it works. Hm, there are many lumps in it, but the powder that isn't lumped is airfloat. Could a powder be airfloat if it had absorbed any considerable amount of water? Edited February 18, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
pyrojig Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I know the smell. I have extracted it from Esbit tablets before I had the pure chemical. That's OK. What's important is that it works. Hm, there are many lumps in it, but the powder that isn't lumped is airfloat. Could a powder be airfloat if it had absorbed any considerable amount of water? Sounds like you have it. It will turn to a sludge if it gets water logged. So if it is powder still, your set, just keep it in a very well sealed container.
dagabu Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I know the smell. I have extracted it from Esbit tablets before I had the pure chemical. That's OK. What's important is that it works. Hm, there are many lumps in it, but the powder that isn't lumped is airfloat. Could a powder be airfloat if it had absorbed any considerable amount of water? Pressure, heat and moisture are the culprits. Dry it out and mill it before use. I have a 3k lump of hex that I was given and it is as hard as a salt lick! -dag
Potassiumchlorate Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 One reason that it might be hard to consolidate is due to the paradoxical fact that parlon stars with high metal content are easy to consolidate, while parlon stars with little or no metal are hard to consolidate. Dextrin stars are usually the opposite.
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