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Brocade Stars

Mumbles

By Mumbles
in Pyrotechnics Compositions

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Mumbles Enthusiast

Mumbles

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I often get requests for the brocade formula I use. I would say it's my formula, but I developed it right back into a very common formula. It took me the better part of two years to rediscover Chrysanthemum 8 :) The formula below is pretty close to Chrysanthemum 8 plus the metals. It's about where I want it. I milled the nitrate, airfloat charcoal, and sulfur for about 30 minutes only because my nitrate is coarse. Dextrin would probably work fine too.

 

KNO3 - 45.5%

C (airfloat) - 26.5%

C (80 mesh) - 10%

Sulfur - 6%

SGRS - 6%

Titanium (-30+60 mesh) - 3%

Aluminum (-20 mesh flitters) - 3%

 

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allrocketspsl Newbie

allrocketspsl

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I often get requests for the brocade formula I use. I would say it's my formula, but I developed it right back into a very common formula. It took me the better part of two years to rediscover Chrysanthemum 8 :) The formula below is pretty close to Chrysanthemum 8 plus the metals. It's about where I want it. I milled the nitrate, airfloat charcoal, and sulfur for about 30 minutes only because my nitrate is coarse. Dextrin would probably work fine too.

 

KNO3 - 45.5%

C (airfloat) - 26.5%

C (80 mesh) - 10%

Sulfur - 6%

SGRS - 6%

Titanium (-30+60 mesh) - 3%

Aluminum (-20 mesh flitters) - 3%

 

 

 

ok if i copy the comp for my next 4" hemi on 3lb rocket

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allrocketspsl Newbie

allrocketspsl

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I often get requests for the brocade formula I use. I would say it's my formula, but I developed it right back into a very common formula. It took me the better part of two years to rediscover Chrysanthemum 8 :) The formula below is pretty close to Chrysanthemum 8 plus the metals. It's about where I want it. I milled the nitrate, airfloat charcoal, and sulfur for about 30 minutes only because my nitrate is coarse. Dextrin would probably work fine too.

 

KNO3 - 45.5%

C (airfloat) - 26.5%

C (80 mesh) - 10%

Sulfur - 6%

SGRS - 6%

Titanium (-30+60 mesh) - 3%

Aluminum (-20 mesh flitters) - 3%

 

 

awesome mate!

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warthog Newbie

warthog

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Posted (edited)

Thanks! Mumbles I have oft admired these while watching your videos.

 

when you mention Dex, is this for a binder then replacing the SGRS? Do you typically roll these?

 

any particular type of charcoal or are you just using commercial?

Edited by warthog
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Mumbles Enthusiast

Mumbles

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By all means allrockets. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't want people using it. Rockets are probably a fairly good spot for them. As you can see from the video they have some hangtime. If someone wanted to use this in smaller shells, I'd suggest using a finer cut of coarse Al. That's what lingers so long. Maybe try screening it through a 40 or 50 mesh screen first?

 

I did mean that Dextrin should work in place of the SGRS. I mostly make cylindrical shells, so I mostly make cut stars. I've been slow to admit that cut stars just look crappy in ball shells. Compositions with Al flitters can be tricky to roll. If you want to give it a shot, please let me know how it goes. It will probably go best with toro. If you want to try to roll it up with dry powder and a spray bottle, I've heard you really want to start with cores over 1/4". The words used to describe how unpleasant rolling comps like this starting from small cores probably shouldn't be mentioned here.

 

Yes, I just use generic commercial charcoal. Both for the airfloat and the -80 mesh. Other charcoals may give a different or more pleasing result. I stick with what's cheap, available, and easy. (probably not the best comment to be making on Valentine's Day :D )

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warthog Newbie

warthog

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Perfect! I am not likely to be rolling these but I am sure to pump them. I tend to pump my stars. I thought that pumped stars were also good for cylinder shells. Not doubt about it though, cutting stars is the fastest and easiest way to make stars IMO. So I can understand using these most of the time for this reason as well. I just have a sort of fascination for making those nice little cylindrical pellets with a pump or star plate.
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californiapyro Newbie

californiapyro

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i love those little perfect pellets. they make me happy :)
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starseeker Newbie

starseeker

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Rolling or cutting charcoal based stars can be a bit of a pita sometimes,roll them and they look bumpy,cut them and the patty is either too wet and the cuts flow into each other or too dry and its a job to roll the patty out, i certainly find the star plate method the quickest and easiest.
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moondogman Newbie

moondogman

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What is the difference between brocade and willow diadem? They look very similar to me?

 

Steve

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MikeB Newbie

MikeB

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What is the difference between brocade and willow diadem? They look very similar to me?

 

Steve

 

The brocade effect is typically of a shorter duration and has a fine lacey silver or gold appearance. A true willow is a long lasting and drooping effect most typically of the charcoal type. It can be variegated though with the inclusion of metals. Diadem refers to a crown and a willow diadem is a willow ending with colored jewels.

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dagabu Newbie

dagabu

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The brocade effect is typically of a shorter duration and has a fine lacey silver or gold appearance. A true willow is a long lasting and drooping effect most typically of the charcoal type. It can be variegated though with the inclusion of metals. Diadem refers to a crown and a willow diadem is a willow ending with colored jewels.

 

Thanks Mike, that was a very nice explanation to an often asked question. Does diadem have to end with jewels even if not a willow diadem?

 

-dag

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Mumbles Enthusiast

Mumbles

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I've never been a fan of the name given to that Independence Fireworks formula. I'm sure it's not quite right, but I've always differentiated willows from brocades in my mind as willows being pure charcoal, and brocades being metalized willows. The etymology makes it out to be an embossed or elaborated cloth. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=brocade I've associated that with an embossed or elaborated tail. IE something additional to the tail. I guess you could make the same arguements about calling a glitter or firefly a brocade as well. There probably isn't a perfectly correct answer.

 

In relation to needed a "jewel", I'd say a diadem needs that. One without would just be a crown willow or crown crysanthemum. I know a lot of these things are laid out in the PGI competition rule book, but I'm sure there is a different source.

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dagabu Newbie

dagabu

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In relation to needed a "jewel", I'd say a diadem needs that. One without would just be a crown willow or crown crysanthemum. I know a lot of these things are laid out in the PGI competition rule book, but I'm sure there is a different source.

 

Thanks for the explanation Mum, it's hard to really get a picture of any one effect when others use the wrong name (myself included) for them. My wife would like to be a PGI judge some day but I am confused with all the nomenclature.

 

-dag

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mabuse00 Rookie

mabuse00

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I was just searching for a brocade formula and this was the only hit...

Please feel free to write your opinion:

 

-I only have commercial (the usual Nitroparis stuff sold by several vendors in Europe) airfloat pine charcoal.

When I use it with nitrate from the blender - what size of stars would you chose for a 4" shell?

 

-I want a long hangtime

 

-since my mill is very small I want to avoid any ballmilling.

 

-my experience with flitter aluminum (that is usually wax coated) is that it affects the binding of a star, I would prefer atomised stuff. Is there any experience with swapping this in instead, and what size would you chose?

 

 

Titanium (-30+60 mesh) - 3%

 

 

Sponge? Flake?

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kingkama Apprentice

kingkama

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Well, airfloat charcoal Is not the wery best for kamuro or/and Willow, but using much sulfur Is suitable. Titanium usually in sponge Will give a cool effect if Is un various size, from 325 to 100 mesh, sponge.
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mabuse00 Rookie

mabuse00

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Well in fact I don't have a choice anyway, as the stuff comes airfloat from the supplier. But what is airfloat...

I'm more concerned to avoid any ballmilling.

I'll have to make a trial batch...

Edited by mabuse00
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kingkama Apprentice

kingkama

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Really nice! Would it work using only pine charcoal that is airfloat?

Pine is said to be the best for brocade, but you need also titanium or/and alluminium.

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