5" 9 timed spiders

[Mumbles]

These were my best medium large cylinder shell entries at PGI in 2010. I got third, but there were two beautiful hammer shells ahead of me. I still scored over a 6, which I was proud of. I think I might have at least edged my way into second if I didn't shatter all the comets in the last break on the second one. I have some room for improvement until I get these where I really want them.

 

 

[Short5]

Congratulations. Those are really nice, bummer on the comets.

[allrocketspsl]

Congratulations. Those are really nice, bummer on the comets.

 

yeah what was the comet comp they were awesome color for charcoal based?Nice effect

[burningRNX]

The all look verry good, I've got to try an 4" multibreak, maybey next year.

[starseeker]

Beautifull,i think the charcoal streamer style stars are the most stunning effects you can get.

[Mumbles]

Definitely give multibreaks a shot. I find them very rewarding. 4" is a good size to get started with actually. They're large enough to get the hang of it, but not nearly heavy enough to require some of the special considerations. You wont NEED a bottom shot, or steel guns. It'd still probably be a good idea to use a comet break as the last one at least however. Not all effects are possible in 4", but you'll soon get the fever and need to move up to bigger ones anyway.

 

The spider stars were a formula I got from Mike Swisher. There is a small amount of lampblack in them which I like. I've never made them without, so I don't know how the small quantity affects the stars. He's never let me down with a formula though, and I like that you don't need to mill it.

 

"http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/765b7bf335be3cd3/5f7c2c174d14ed3a?hl=en&q=mike+swisher+spider+web+lampblack#5f7c2c174d14ed3a

 

" If you are getting a spherical cloud with your cut stars, you are

either cutting

them too small or using an inappropriate composition.

 

Try -

 

Saltpetre 18 lbs.

A.F. charcoal 9 lbs.

Sulphur 3-1/2 lbs.

Lampblack 4 oz.

Dextrine 2 lbs.

 

Do NOT mill. Sieve your saltpetre, sulphur, and dextrine through 40-

mesh. Add

the lampblack and mix by hand. Weigh out the charcoal and sieve the

other mixed

ingredients through 40-mesh onto the charcoal. Then hand-mix, sive 3X

through

20-mesh.

 

You will need a lot of water to cut this mix. Cut 3/4" stars for 4"

shells "

[warthog]

looked pretty good even with the shattered comets. I sort of liked the whole cloud of firedust effect but then you don't get a higher score if it is n unintended thing I suppose. I will eventually make my way to multibreaks but it is gonna be a fairly long ways off I would guess before I get there. Until then I still get to watch the other people who make them and I love to watch fireworks as much as I lobe making them.

[marks265]

I can see where you would want some improvement. I believe we can say that for 99 percent of our shells. They still are fun shells you had. Every time I watch them I can only think about building one someday. I also think I might have seen a nicer one from you at WPAG before these.

[Mumbles]

This is one of my favorite shells to make. Joel may have his hammer shells, but I have my spiders. I've brought several to WPAG. You probably saw a few 5 timed spiders and maybe one or two 8 or 9 timed spiders. I really only stepped up to 9 that summer. Below is one of my best ones to date. It has better insert breaks. The final break looking like that wasn't intentional but I really like it. It's too bad it's rather dangerous to use cut stars in the final break like that one had.

 

[marks265]

I think I remember a 9 timed. That's one thing I hate about PGI competition is that the scoring is up to the judges (go figure) If they personally like hammer shells more so than a spider than that will score higher. With that said some competitors are known for certain shells and their names are already on them when they are shot. Shoot something different and they don't know what to think. Shoot something highly technical but not so pretty and you will also lose.

[flying fish]

Mumbles,

 

Were your 5" 9x spiders shot from a multi gun or a standard length?

 

I am trying my hand at one of these, but with a bit closer timing so the time of flight doesn't have to be as long. It's getting closer to our shoot so I figure I should figure out what to shoot it from.

[Mumbles]

I'm pretty sure it was a standard length steel gun that these were shot from. The shells come out around 5.5 to 6lbs. This is heavy enough that I'd suggest only using fiberglass or steel. This type of shell can be cutting it close on timing as it is, so if there is a multibreak gun available, by all means use it.

 

I agree that the timing was a little sluggish. I was using a different roll of time fuse for all of my shells at PGI and they came out a tad slower than expected. I shoot for about 0.6 to 0.7 seconds between breaks. I feel this gives them enough time to spread out while still keeping a nice rhythm. For a shell like this you still need to allow about 7 seconds at least from the initial break until the final break. The competition shells needed to be broken earlier for more upward travel. I think some of my spolettes got damp and had sluggish initial burns. I had a number of shells rise too long at PGI.

[flying fish]

Thanks for the tips. It may have been misleading when I said I made the inserts with a "bit" closer timing. I have the inserts timed with just under a 0.3s spacing and the bottom shot has a 4.3 second spolette on it. Most likely someone will facepalm when they see it, but I figured it was safer for my first attempt not to require as much air time (I suppose trying a 5-timed for my first attempt might have been the better option ).

 

Do you recall how much lift your shells used?

[Mumbles]

If I had to guess, I'd say about 200g. I added some extra just because it was PGI and I wanted to make sure everything was well up in the air. That's probably a good thing considering they had some unexpected extra timing.

 

I actually started working on a 5" 15 timed spider once. It has similar timings to what you describe. If I ever follow through on that shell, I was thinking about staggering inserts. For a 9 timed spider you typically put inserts 1-4 on the bottom of the shell, and 5-9 on the top of the shell in really no particular order. There are only four inserts per ring and they don't spread much. With 7 inserts per ring for a 15 timed spider they do get some spread, so I was going to use something like 1,3,5,7,2,4,6 so they appeared to break randomly in the sky. Part of the effect can be the overlapping tails though. I just didn't want to make it look like a spider rondelle.