OLDGUYS TRIPLE BARREL CHARCOAL RETORT DESIGN

[peedee]

Anybody have any idea what the cost verses reward in efficiency is if the outer drums are well insulated?

 

 

 

It might be worth a look at home foundry sites for suitable material ideas. Refractory mortar filled with polystyrene beads are popular (They burn out to provide an air cushion). More expensive but very effective is Kaowool.

 

My small furnace which has run to 1000C many times is quick dry (High allumina) cement around 2" thick that was filled with large amounts of styrene packin chips.

 

What you are trying to acheive is essential a kiln?

 

(Nice design BTW!)

[oldguy]

What I am trying to achieve is an efficient charcoal retort.

For making fairly large amounts of consistent grade pyrotechnic & black powder charcoal.

Somewhat similar to a "kiln". But, the temperature requirements are lower.

I want an adjustable operating temperature range of about 300 to 375 Celsius (572 to 707 F)

 

As for insulation, so the retort can remain somewhat portable, weight is a critical factor.

Not to mention cost.

 

If I do insulate it, to keep the insulation weight & cost to a minimum.

I will probably use some sort of a mixture of diatomaceous earth, pumice, vermiculite, perlite & possibly a sodium silicate binder.

 

http://www.schundler.com/composites.htm

 

All of which are readily available, fairly inexpensive, very light weight & will withstand the temperature range requirements.

Edited January 18, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

One double drum stove kit (weighs 44lbs) arrived today.

I ordered the other brand also & it should arrive tomarrow.

 

 

[oldguy]

 

Also scored some better quality 55G barrels of thicker gauge metal than I had, plus some cool little 4.5 & 20G open top drums & a roll of sheet metal.

All at very nominal prices. I found them driving through a small local industrial complex.

 

LOL… …..55G barrels were full of silicone base.

 

I asked what they made with it.

Answer was > sex toys (dildo’s)

Edited January 19, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

The other kit arrived UPS ground today & a little Papst SQ fan to super-charge the burner barrel if I want

 

 

Of the 2 kits, the United States Stove Company Kit is the far better casting quality of the two.

A bit more expensive than the other.

https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=243&product_id=277

[oldguy]

A word to the wise before you start cutting the drums to install the cast iron stove kit. If the drums you use were full of any very sticky, oily, or greasy substance. More often than not they will contain some residue. Clean metal is easy & nice to work with. Sticky or greasy metal is not. If yours aren't clean. I would suggest pressure washing them. If you don't have a pressure washer, haul them to a DIY carwash. For a couple bucks you can get them as clean as the dishes you eat off of. I pressured washed mine because they contained a lot of sticky silicone residue inside them.

 

Edited January 20, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

 

 

 

 

 

Easy, simple tools & takes about 15 minutes.

 

I am doing this to the closed end of an open ended drum.

Reason being, so I have easy access inside the burn barrel.

As I plan to insulate it on the inside.

Edited January 21, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

Blower will be attached about 18 inches back from the firebox drum.

 

[oldguy]

 

 

 

[oldguy]

For insulating the inside of your firebox drum.

Cut both ends of another 55G barrel about a 1/4 inch less than your firebox drum height, then cut the long way

Pull togather so diameter is around 2 inch's ID less than your firebox barrel & use a few small sheet metal screws or nut's & bolts to attach the overlaping metal skin togather

 

[allrocketspsl]

make alot of charcoal mate

[oldguy]

make alot of charcoal mate

 

Is that a question?

I plan to, I have a use for 20 to 40 lbs a month.

[oldguy]

Enough today, time to wash up, have supper, then cocktail time......

 

[JFeve81]

Looks good. Keep it up. I'm wanting to see if this thing performs as hoped. If anything it would make a good shop heater. Non pyro of course.

[oldguy]

I'm taking it one step at a time as I put the major pieces together.

Then pondering and trying to think through the next piece to add & where/how to position it at minimum cost, with maximum functionality.

By insulating the burn barrel, the plan is to maximize the heat going up through the flue system into & throughout the upper outer drum the charring barrel will be situated in.

 

I have no doubt it will work.

How cost effective and efficient the end result will be, is the question?

 

Ned Gorski (PGI GrandMaster) makes bulk charcoal like this.

 

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/cooking%20charcoal%20using%20the%20double-barrel%20method.pdf

It is a very easy cost effective method, where outdoor burn barrels are not prohibited.

The primary issue I have with this method, is complete lack of tempurature control.

Once its stoked full of fuel & lit, it burns off at whatever tempurature the fuel & draft allow.

Which can be quite high.

 

To me very close to 300 °C (572°F) is optimal, as the end result charcoal contains 31% volatile content.

 

Above 300 °C you rapidly lose volatile content incrementally as the temperature increases.

500°C = 13% volatile material

700°C = 7 % volatile material

 

(Photo Credit NED GORSKI)

 

Google up a flame tempurature color chart & estimate the tempurature of the retort.

Deep Orange = 1,100 °C (2,000 °F)

Whitish flame = 1,300 °C (2,400 °F)

Edited January 24, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

After eyeballing everything. I am going to make a few changes.

Nothing major, just a few minor design tweeks, that I believe are improvements.

 

The cast iron legs on the fire box barrel drum are short & puny.

Cast iron is brittle. I believe if you gave the bottom drum a stout kick or shove from front or back.

The legs would break, or the drums would simply collapse to the ground.

They would be fine in a stationary position on a concrete floor, if you never planned on moving the unit.

However, I would prefer the fire box drum to be slightly higher & want stout legs & a high degree of portability.

 

So, I am going to use some steel as legs. May be pipe, channel - angle iron, or whatever.

Not sure yet & have to visit the steel yard to see what's suitable and on sale.

I also plan to run those leg supports high enough to attach to the upper outer drum as additional support.

Attached with nuts exposed on the outside. So the top drum unit can be easily separated from the bottom drum for better portability if/whenever it is moved.

 

Because of head pressure concerns from volatile gas once the charring commences.

I am going to use 1.5 or 2 inch steel pipe for the piping from the upper inner drum down into the fire box and a butterfly or gate valve (rather than a ball valve) in the piping into the firebox.

 

I would rather build it right once , than have to tear it down & make improvements several times.

Edited January 24, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

Things fell in place today in a good way.

I have a bunch of 16, 20 & 55G open top drums. But no 30G open top drums.

I could order them on line but it would be a cold day in hell before I pay $65 bucks each for the drums & $35 bucks each shipping for new ones.

 

So, I had the word out to several local salvage & scrap yards for 30G open top drums.

Got a call today, scrap yard had some @ $20 each. High tailed it over there & picked them up.

30G is the perfect size inserted in a 55G.

The spacing allows just enough room that mounting will be easy.

 

Then scouted around for steel at several junk & salvage places, to build a sturdy set of legs & for piping from the upper inner drum into the fire box.

SCORE… . found some rigid stainless steel pipe that will work perfectly at such low prices, I almost felt like a thief.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2012 by oldguy

[Peret]

It looks like it's all coming together! I can't wait to read your report after you fire it up.

[oldguy]

It looks like it's all coming together! I can't wait to read your report after you fire it up.

 

 

Slowly, but surely I think it is.

Just trying to think it all through one step at a time, preassembly so there are no irreparable blunders.

 

I imaging it will take 2 or 3 firings to get it tuned in for optimal performance.

First firing the charring drum will be empty, just to burn off the paint & to check upper drum temperatures.

 

After that, I will fire it up with a load of white pine & see how it performs.

 

Fingers crossed it does well.

Otherwise wife will be finger pointing, laughing & saying I TOLD YOU SO forever.

 

I laughed about the stainless steel. Wife's comment was "what next, Mag wheels."

 

That made me start thinking about adding Caster wheels to the legs.

Edited January 25, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

I finally come up with a "ballpark" sort of refractory grout firebox insulation formula.

 

Perlite 70

Greenstripe fireclay 15

(Greenstripe fireclay is basically a light weight Hydrous Aluminum Silicate.)

¼ inch minus white light weight pumice 10

Diatomaceous earth (calcined) 5

 

Combined in a mortar mix tub, then add enough N type 40% sodium silicate solution to make the dry ingredient mixture "tacky".

Then lightly ram the grout in-between the inner & outer metal skin of the firebox drum with a 1X4 or 2X2 board.

 

Since I have two complete double barrel stove kits. If the Big Bertha unit functions as planned, I am also going to build a far smaller model from some other small drums I have. Using a hybrid 25G drum as the fire barrel & a 30G drum as the upper outer barrel, with either a 16 or 20G drum inside the 30G upper drum. With both the upper & lower barrel each having seperate free standing legs, with only stove pipe connecting the upper & lower units. That way only the stove pipe has to be disconnected to separate the two units. Which would make it very portable.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

Pictured below is the fire drum height with cast iron legs.

 

As we'll as the SS legs I attached instead of the cast iron legs.

 

Height is a bit more than doubled.

 

It was also a learning lesson drilling holes in SS.

 

SS is tough stuff & I went through 3 bits, drilling 4 holes.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2012 by oldguy

[allrocketspsl]

think ss is tuff try platinum,lol! So how much charcaol is this going to yield you with one burn?Great work by the by

[oldguy]

SS was far harder to drill than I thought it would be. Off to try to find a jobber 6 pack of 3/8ths cobalt bits locally today. Since I burned through all of the regular 3/8ths bits I had yesterday. Next drilling session, will drill small pilot holes first to see if that helps. If anyone decides to install beefier legs. I would suggest using 2 inch square mild steel tubing. Simply because it is not to expensive, readily available & drills easily.

 

It's going to take a few burns, before I have any real idea of what the finished charcoal yields will by weight or volume.

I expect far higher yields over the uncontrolled nested drum "incinerator" method commonly used to make bulk BP grade charcoal.

 

Thanks for the kind words. Charcoal has been in use over 5000 years. Steel barrels have been around well over 100 years. All the big pyro pro's that make BP grade bulk charcoal seem to have used some sort of nested steel barrels one inside the other without any means to control internal pressure, the charring duration & involved high temperatures. I'm proud to have been the 1^st to come up with a hopefully far better method that anyone can put to use. If they take the trouble, time & expense of building one like this.

Edited January 31, 2012 by oldguy

[oldguy]

SODIUM SILICATE FINALLY ARRIVED

 

[oldguy]

Before I do anything I cannot undue before the final build.

 

After looking at both outer 55G drums stacked one on top the other.

 

 

I am thinking if the exhaust flue vents were positioned vertically in line with one another centered on the 55G drums (depicted in green below).

Rather than the exhaust flues positioned opposing each other.

 

 

That would do a better job of evenly heating the upper inner 30G drum.

I don't think it would affect the heating characteristic of the fire box drum.

As I could position an additional air inlet vent on the other end of the firebox drum.

No big deal as I have several extra open top 55G drums & it would only take 30 minutes to reconfigure another lower outer drum.

 

Any comments?

Edited February 2, 2012 by oldguy