First real attempt... now questions about the results

[ChloRure]

Allright, this past weekend I was able to get a site and shoot 4 X 1.75" and 1 X 3 inchs shell that I made.

 

I used 8 grams of granulated ballmilled (14hours) to lift 1.75" and 17 grams to lift the 3 inchs (weight was at 140grams before lift cup)

 

First thing... I think I used a little too much lift, since I wasn't sure if my blackpowder was hot enough. They all get high and the 3 inch looked like a 2 inchs cause he was so high, I will try another one with 1/10 weight/liftcharge and use about 6 grams for 1.75"

 

As for the burst charge, I used corn cob (the one you buy in pet shop) coated with ballmilled meal powder + about 1g of kno3/al/s flashpowder (1.75") and ~5g (3 inchs)

 

Problem is that not all of the shell did burst well or get the stars to ignite.

 

1st shell... C8 stars, went all good, in fact it was in my opition a perfect shot. No priming on stars, 3/8 cut stars.

2nd shell... Yankie's purple stars, burned fast and maybe about half of the stars ignited (1/4 cut stars).

3nd shell... Emeral Green stars, most of them ignited but color was a little washed out (1/4 cut stars)

4nd shell... 10 grams salute (70/30 kclo4/al)... all went good.

 

5nd shell (3inchs one)... half of the stars were Organic Blue (kind of pyroscience if I remember but with CuO) and other half were Orange Veline stars. Look like about 3/4 of the Veline stars ignited and just a single blue star ignited :/ (3/8 to 1/2 cuts stars)

 

All the colors stars were primed with greenmix blackpowder (75/15/10) + 5% dextrin + 10% silicon

I took a plastic container then sprayed stars with 75/25 alcool then shaked the container with greenmix.

 

I did that only 1 time so a thin layer of prime was on the stars, they ignited fast and well with a small lighter butane torshe.

 

I want to do some more test this weekend and was wondering if it's a better idea to use rice hulls to get a more symetric burst and to maybe improve the ignition on stars.

Do I need to dry the first prime then wet them again and shake them in another shot of prime ? like 2 .. 3 times ?

 

Any tips will be welcome!

 

Again, sorry for poor english.

Edited January 10, 2012 by ChloRure

[usapyro]

Your overboosting your shells a bit. Could have shattered some stars with 5g at 3". To insure ignition of your stars prime them with green mix. Just rough screened black powder. Not ballmilled.

 

This comp doesn't look like it needs a hotter prime than BP...

 

Kyle Kepley's Emerald green (MgAl) Barium nitrate 50 Parlon 18 Magnalium 12 Potassium perchlorate 8 Sulfur 5 Charcoal 5 Dextrin +5 Red gum 2

 

Yankie's KP Purple

KClO4.........................50

Parlon.........................15

CuO............................12

SrCO3...........................9

Red Gum.......................8

MgAl (325 mesh)............5

 

Nah, these definitely don't need more than a nice 1mm green mix BP prime. Easier ignition of the BP without the silicon too.

Edited January 10, 2012 by usapyro

[guntoteninfadel]

I too am having issues with color star ignition and have come to same conclusion usapyro suggested of over boosting. The bp stars light fine but the color ones are all but blown blind. I want to try kp next and see how that works.

[usapyro]

A good shell will pressurize itself full of flame and go with a bang from good confinement(pasting). If you use a lot of boost your stars are just getting a glancing blow of flame. If your still having problems test a double prime. BP green mix outside prime to > BP/KNO3/Silicon Metal 40/30/30. Try for at least a 1mm layer of each. If that doesn't work your probably blowing your stars apart.

 

In the old days when I didn't have a foot controlled electric star roller... I would just paint one side of the stars with NC lacquer or a wet BP/Binder 90/10 mix then throw granulated or corned BP on them.

Edited January 10, 2012 by usapyro

[guntoteninfadel]

I will definitly try that. I had a feeling I was over boosting but it was some of my first shells, and I was in a hurry, and while I did "wrap" them well it was nowhere near correct (hence reason for booster). I got a lot of what I did wrong which ended up with some flower pots and one intube detonation that blew my mortar to pieces, but overall was really happy considering all the work that didnt go into them. I do plan on experimenting more, learning from the mistakes and starting a lot earlier for 7/4. Oh and I really really liked the KABOOM the 5grams made, it was awesome!

 

 

[Mumbles]

I wont lie, I'm not a huge fan of boosters. If someone is going to do it, I like the approach Ned Gorski takes where he coats a large-ish quantity of hulls with flash and use what sticks. I feel like this would give a more consistent performance from shell to shell and batch to batch. Still I prefer to use perchlorate based bursts and dial in performance with pasting, not more or less booster. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

 

There are two versions of blowing blind to keep in mind. They're actually both solved in similar way, but for different reasons. The first is what most people think of, which is where the stars just don't light. This means that you either need a hotter prime, or at least a thicker prime. Also keep in mind that hot primes sometimes need a prime of their own to ensure they get going well. The other malfunction that is commonly called blowing blind is when the stars blow out at high speeds. Color stars, particularly blue, seem to more prone to this. It can be partially remedied by using a few parts charcoal in a star. You can see this on videos sometimes where there is definitely flickers of color, but they don't stay on. To get around this it really just needs a thicker prime, or another composition rolled over the top of it.

 

It sounds like your priming method is not up to par. A dusting even of a hotter composition doesn't always cut it. I've been making sure to apply a healthy prime as of late and have been having better results.

[dan999ification]

the problem is not only the booster but also the prime, some stars need more than green mix bp to get them going, if the prime is slower than the break=no good, you need them to light before they leave the shell or at least have the prime going well and let that finish the job. what mesh is the si?

try pinball prime for the coloured stars ive had them light with pure flash breaks, the charcoal stars should need no priming unless you boost hard, whistle mix and less of it is a better break for reliability of ignition.

i prime veline stars with pinball, apply it to the pattie, turn it over do it again, cut the stars, as they have nearly dried wet [solvent] and prime again/shake them. the first priming should not be dusty but be absorbed into the stars, the last layer i like dusty for easier ignition so keep applying until it dries up.

 

 

dan.

stars lit with pinball, the bombettes, two of which had pure flash breaks

 

http://youtu.be/HCryTDe2qb4

[Potassiumchlorate]

Pinball prime is great. I think >95% of my stars light with Pinball prime+5% silicon.

[ChloRure]

When you prime your stars... I'm not sure I really understand how to do it.

 

Do I need to wet some greenmix then paint the wetted star compusition before cuting and letting the stars dry ?

 

 

 

After that I do a greenmix with silicon and dust them in a container ?

 

 

Pretty sure I used too much booster... 1.75" were 10-12 layers pasted and 3 inchs was 13 layers (could use 16)

 

 

As for slow booster whisltle mix I will try with 70/30 kclo4/sodium benzoate.

[usapyro]

Simplest way to prime stars for you would be to toss them into a plastic bowl and spritz them with NC lacquer and toss meal on them. You could also spritz them with water possibly and toss comp with binder in it onto them while rolling them around. It's tricky to do it that way though. Practice!

 

I just toss them into my star roller and spritz them with a 3% NC lacquer while rolling and tossing in scoops of the prime. Doesn't matter the shape of the star. They all tumble or roll.

Edited January 10, 2012 by usapyro

[dan999ification]

When you prime your stars... I'm not sure I really understand how to do it.

 

Do I need to wet some greenmix then paint the wetted star compusition before cuting and letting the stars dry ?

 

dont wet the prime, prime the wet star comp before you cut it, then once you have cut them shake them in more prime or wait till they dry and apply some solvent/water depending on which prime you use and prime them

 

After that I do a greenmix with silicon and dust them in a container ?

 

for veline coloured stars i only use pinball prime nothing else,[ because it works]

 

Pretty sure I used too much booster... 1.75" were 10-12 layers pasted and 3 inchs was 13 layers (could use 16)

the booster was heavy but thats too many layers which adds to the problem, boosted shells need less pasting, i use 7 layers of 70lb paper for 3" ball shells and generally 2-3 layers per inch of diameter

 

As for slow booster whisltle mix I will try with 70/30 kclo4/sodium benzoate.

whistle is not slow treat it as you would flash

 

i dont like boosters either only ever boosted one shell and it went salute since then i enjoy normal breaks, you can always add some noise seperately.

 

dan.

[ChloRure]

i dont like boosters either only ever boosted one shell and it went salute since then i enjoy normal breaks, you can always add some noise seperately.

 

dan.

 

Even on small shell ? Only rice hulls and stars and the breaking is good?

[guntoteninfadel]

 

http://youtu.be/HCryTDe2qb4

 

 

I love that video!

[dan999ification]

Even on small shell ? Only rice hulls and stars and the breaking is good?

 

as the bp has improved so have the breaks, the smallest shells i make are 35mm bombettes they undoubtably break better then my cans of the same size, 40mm cans for mortars and rockets and 30mm balls for rockets, usually use pure bp for small stuff but have had some good even breaks from bp on seed 50/50 even with inserts and less than 10g of seeds i think its more down to good even confinement, your mileage may vary and you may like harder breaks than me. it does depend on what YOU like and the type of shell.

 

dan.

[ChloRure]

Updates...

 

I tried 2 other 1.75" shells today but this time with no booster at all.

 

I used only Rice hulls as break and it worked pretty good, the bang was a lot less noisy but I dont want a big bang with 1.75 shell.

 

I think around 95% of the stars ignited, even the blue.

 

Now I still need to work with lift powder quantity cause 6grams look like to be a little to much.

[dan999ification]

how many layers of pasting?

 

 

dan.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I use H3 on rice hulls from and including 3" to and including 6".

 

For 1.75" you could simply use flash.

[ChloRure]

how many layers of pasting?

 

 

dan.

 

 

I used 10 layers on those, maybe 12 layers would work but not more, it would not fit in my mortar.

[ChloRure]

I use H3 on rice hulls from and including 3" to and including 6".

 

For 1.75" you could simply use flash.

 

I was doing them with flash but not all stars ignited and those were spread out so much.

[Peret]

I don't use a booster, I burst all my shells last year (from 1.75 up to 4 inches) with BP on hulls only. Someone who examined the debris (not me) remarked that the unboosted shells didn't fragment the hemispheres whereas his (boosted) shells did, but I was still getting decent spherical breaks. I did make one cylinder rocket header, a ring report, with a gram of flash because I happened to have it left over, but that one was a failure and didn't break in a ring.

[DanielC]

Some stars require a two step prime. First use a hot inner prime and then a bp outer prime. It is more work of course, but it beats having unlighted stars. Using slow flash boost on small shells isn't necessary. You can build up more layers as long as the shell still fits. Actually H3 is recommended for shells under 4" , but only if you are ok working with chlorate. Otherwise try KP and extra pasting. Edited January 16, 2012 by DanielC

[dan999ification]

the extra pasting on smaller bp broken shells is really a must, if you use boost cut down on the pasting you'd normally use or stars will blow blind and even 1g f boost it can confine enough to eject the stars before they see any fire no prime will help you here.

if bp/charcoal stars wont light how do they light with a step prime that has a bp outer coating? if colour stars wont ignite- using a break suited to the prime or vice versa is better than unspecified step primes

h3 is one option and you can actually use pure 70/30 break with only one prime and one layer of it but for smaller shells and people new to fireworks learning good pasting and getting used to bp breaks that dont blow stars blind is a more attractive and more rewarding option plus you dont have to deal with the incompatability's of chlorate in your workshop [something i still wont do as there is no need for me] or have to use any type of flash, this is what the art is all about., as a hobbyist you have the ability to make some upmarket/designer shells that dont always require a boost or anything other than bp/metal comps, comercial peony shells are certainly boosted but they all look the same just a different colour, good for filling shows but most people can do a lot better work and get greater satisfatction if they dont concentrate on dialling the booster/not blowing stars blind and just make real pyro.

 

dan.

[DanielC]

From what he was saying only the purple stars weren't igniting. That is why I mentioned the two step prime.

Also, I wasn't saying not to use a boost. I use 2or3g of slow flash in my plastic hemis. It is the only way I can get a decent symmetrical break with the plastic.

Lately, I have been working a lot on breaks with only riced BP in 3"paper shells. I'm struggling with it a bit at present just need more practice I guess. I'm beginning to think KP and extra pasting works best for the small stuff.

[ChloRure]

In fact, only the blues stars failed to ignite completly with flash booster, other colors did ignite but like 50-60% of them. Without any booster, they all ignited. But I used a 2 step prime too... maybe it helped. BP + Silicon and BP for the other prime.