unlisted Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 Okay, I know Flash powder is frowned upon here, but that is NOT my question. Please no major flaming, I am still learning some things. I am wondering what the difference is between German Blackhead / Indian Blackhead/ normal Aluminum powder (10micron) 1250 mesh / Aluminum powder (20micron) 625mesh is. Is the difference only mesh/particle size? Say I use the 10 micron where it calls for Indian Blackhead, will this work? Or will this have the same effect as changing a chemical, like where something calls for Magnesium, but you subsitute it for Sulfur.. Also if the only difference is particle size, can I just "grind" it up more, (possibly in a ball mill?) to make it a smaller particle size?
pa_pyro Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 It depends if the powder is spherical or flake. If you can use indain/german black then your good, but from what I've seen 1250 mesh spherical is also impressive. If the 625 mesh is spherical(you got from ebay I'm guessing) then you will end up with very bright slow burning flash.
Ozzy Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 get the lowest micron highest mesh and make sure its flake unless its like -1000 mesh
Mumbles Posted October 12, 2006 Posted October 12, 2006 I won't help you with flash, but I will explain the difference. Blackhead: The German and Indian are just difference in country of origin. Blackhead is a special process. Aluminum is made into a very thin sheet. It is then glued to a piece of paper. The paper is shreaded down to a fine powder(probably around 200 mesh or so). Then it is put into a kiln and the paper is burned off. This is what gives it it's dark color. The powder is then hammer milled to make even finer. They end up averaging around 8micron. "Normal": This is most commonly known as atomised. The aluminum is melted. It is then subjected to one of three processes. It can be poured onto a spinning disk. The speed of the disk determines the particle size. Faster = smaller. It can be sprayed through a nozzle. The last is a modification to the spraying. An ultra sound crystal is placed in the tip. The vibrations of the crystal break up the Al particles ever smaller. A few you didn't ask about: Granular: Ground up particles, have sharper edges. Spheroidial: Similar to atomized, but shot into cold air so the particles can't become spherical. More eliptical or tear drop shaped. 1
unlisted Posted October 12, 2006 Author Posted October 12, 2006 Yes, I am looking on ebay to purchase some Aluminum Powder, Here is the links: (Also, this seems to be the only seller-from any company - willing to ship to Canada- no one else will!) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-Powder-5LBS-1...7QQcmdZViewItem I know I should get the more expensive one, but I am wondering if I purchase the cheaper one, and ball mill it, will it work just as well? Also, if any one can help me out with other supplies, drop me a PM. I do have a US shipping address also. Mumbles- thanks for the info, that helps alot. Yes this is for flash, BUT I do not need info on how to make it- I was just curious about the aluminum. Also, so you all know, this flash powder is being made for my work- they require... well.. alot. Yes, I do have my permits for manufacturing, and I work for the Fed. Gov't. Now with all that being said, I STILL Cannot find a supplier in Canada, that will sell the required items for less than $80.00 Per pound. Hence, the asking online.
Mumbles Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 If it is true that you work for the government and all that, you should most definatly not have to resort to ebay. If you have permits and what not, it would be just as easy to import the proper materials from the US by the barrel. BTW, I don't buy for a second you work for the canadian government, nor that they need large amounts of flash. They wouldn't enlist someone who had no idea what they were doing to make large amounts of flash. 1
unlisted Posted October 13, 2006 Author Posted October 13, 2006 If it is true that you work for the government and all that, you should most definatly not have to resort to ebay. If you have permits and what not, it would be just as easy to import the proper materials from the US by the barrel. BTW, I don't buy for a second you work for the canadian government, nor that they need large amounts of flash. They wouldn't enlist someone who had no idea what they were doing to make large amounts of flash.Mumbles, you have PM. Just so everyone knows, I do work for the Gov't I am offering to prove this to Mumbles, and I also have my ERD permits so I can legally own these chemicals. The trainers at my work approached me, and asked me to produce some samples. They were using actual flashbangs for training and did not like the after effects on the trainees when they were too close. I am on a tight sample budget, hence the "resorting to ebay" for some chemicals. Also, I cannot find ONE chemical suppler, that is reasonably priced, on the supplier list that will ship to Canada, or ship to my US address. This ebay supplier is the ONLY one I have found. If someone wants to suggest a company that would sell about 5-8 pounds of chemicals to a Canadian- with permits- please let me know. I do have a US address it can be shipped to; I know the border hazmat fees are quite high. Also, some of these chemicals are for personal use, not all is for my work. Heck, I need something to practice with. There is also more than just flash I am making/ providing, I am also purchasing display (sound) shells for training, and some other items.
h&k machineguns Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Can you ball mill aluminum powder by itself and make it finer ? What material balls would you use ?
pa_pyro Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 It depends on the mesh, if you have high mesh german dark I doubt you are going to get much smaller particles, But for higher mesh metals I use 3/4" steel balls. Although nickels might work for milling material. steel balls reduce coffee shredded Al foil to fairly fine mesh after a day or 2 of milling.( although my Al foil aluminum didn't even work in fountains so I used it for generating hydrogen because it's more reactive.)
pyrochris Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 If it is true that you work for the government and all that, you should most definatly not have to resort to ebay. If you have permits and what not, it would be just as easy to import the proper materials from the US by the barrel. BTW, I don't buy for a second you work for the canadian government, nor that they need large amounts of flash. They wouldn't enlist someone who had no idea what they were doing to make large amounts of flash.Mumbles, you have PM. Just so everyone knows, I do work for the Gov't I am offering to prove this to Mumbles, and I also have my ERD permits so I can legally own these chemicals. The trainers at my work approached me, and asked me to produce some samples. They were using actual flashbangs for training and did not like the after effects on the trainees when they were too close. I am on a tight sample budget, hence the "resorting to ebay" for some chemicals. Also, I cannot find ONE chemical suppler, that is reasonably priced, on the supplier list that will ship to Canada, or ship to my US address. This ebay supplier is the ONLY one I have found. If someone wants to suggest a company that would sell about 5-8 pounds of chemicals to a Canadian- with permits- please let me know. I do have a US address it can be shipped to; I know the border hazmat fees are quite high. Also, some of these chemicals are for personal use, not all is for my work. Heck, I need something to practice with. There is also more than just flash I am making/ providing, I am also purchasing display (sound) shells for training, and some other items.Here you go, 1 micron Aluminum 30$ a pound shipped. Its very good even though its atomized, its even better than 2 micron german dark. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Chemguy Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Aluminum is quite soft, so ball milling would not be very easywith bigger blobs. It's the same as for magnesium.
Mumbles Posted October 16, 2006 Posted October 16, 2006 Yeah, but it also tears easily, so the milling is actually moderatly easy. Not as easy as a brittle material, but still not bad.
Blaster5337 Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 http://www.starmolecule.com/buy-aluminum-powder/dark-jagged-flake-aluminum-powder/1lb-dark-aluminum-powder/
enanthate Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Old thread you got here.Reading it reminded me of something though, that I haven't looked into yet. Other than German Dark, I only got #400 spherical aluminum. If a composition calls for Al, this is what I would use. So the question is does it make a big difference? Should I bother getting flakes? I'm sure there must be a little difference, but is it critical is what I'm trying to ask. Edited October 20, 2014 by enanthate
Mumbles Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 The difference between flake and atomized is actually quite large.
taiwanluthiers Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 The OP may not need an entire drum, it looked like he only wanted a few # of aluminum. to the OP: It is possible to ball mill aluminum to reduce its particle size, but it is not recommended because aluminum takes a long time to ball mill (the particles may stick together and thus not reduce in particle size all that much), and also since the fresh aluminum surface isn't oxidized, the powder could become pyrophroic if you don't open the jar and let it air out every now and then. Also there have been reports of metal powder somehow combusting in the jar, or right after starting the mill. Granted it's probably not all that common but still, it's not all that practical. It would take weeks and weeks of milling to get a tiny quantity of powder. Spherical doesn't work all that well for flash unless it's a very slow flash you are looking for. In fact the common 325 mesh spherical aluminum doesn't even burn when mixed 70/30 with perc, and will burn brightly (but slowly) when mixed 50:50 with perc. They are more appropriate for glitters or something like that. I've experimented with using the 325 mesh aluminum for colors and it just isn't reactive enough to produce color at all. When mixed with colorants, chlorine donors, the proportions of fuel is just too small to reach the temp. required for a good green. Reds might work however. For flash it might work better for larger reports where a slower burning composition is better (kinda like blue aluminum or something). I believe even paint grade aluminum (about 300 mesh flake) which is fairly common will work better for flash than spherical. I never tried it however but seen a few firecrackers that seems to use paint grade aluminum, mixed with sulfur and charcoal as well as perc with fairly good effect (though still slower than German dark). I only tried German dark.
OblivionFall Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Can you ball mill aluminum powder by itself and make it finer ? What material balls would you use ?Ball milling your own aluminum powder is hard, dangerous and usually gives less than satisfactory results even if you mix it with charcoal.
OblivionFall Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 If you really are making flash powder, I might as well make sure you're making a safe flash powder. 7:3 Ratio of Potassium Perchlorate to German Dark, 5143 Eckhart, Indian or even Blue Aluminum powder if you feel like being exotic (Make sure the aluminum powder is less than 5 microns for best results.) I really hope you aren't working with more than ten grams of flash powder at a time, and I hope you are not making firecrackers bigger than 1.5g of flash powder because after that you're risking fingers/sight/hearing.
enanthate Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Note the date of the original post.He's gone mate.
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