Beginner chems

[Tesla]

Hi, I'd like to get in to the hobby rocketry and pyrotechnics. Can you guys give me a list of some of the most basic chemicals a beginner would need. Here's what I think I'll get so far.

 

Dextrin, Strontium Carbonate, Sulfur, Dark Flak and Bright Flake Aluminum powder, Red Iron Oxide, Potassium Benzoate, Potassium Perc, Potassium Chlorate, Potassium Nitrate.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2011 by Tesla

[dagabu]

Potassium Nitrate, Charcoal, Sulfur and -350 Aluminum will work fine to begin with. Get black powder rockets down before even thinking about whistle.

 

-dag

[Chuleo]

Don't buy Potassium Chlorate and Dark Flake Aluminium! Dark Flake Aluminium is mostly needed for flash powder which is certainly not a beginner project.

You won't need Potassium Chlorate if you have Potassium Perchlorate. You may need Red Gum if you want to make colored stars.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Chuleo

[Tesla]

Potassium Nitrate, Charcoal, Sulfur and -350 Aluminum will work fine to begin with. Get black powder rockets down before even thinking about whistle.

 

-dag

 

 

 

Is 350 Aluminum a type of Aluinum, or is it the mesh size?

[dagabu]

-350 Aluminum is the mesh size

 

-dag

[californiapyro]

kno3 sulfur charcoal dextrin aluminum titanium, you can do pyro for years with those!

[Tesla]

For Aluminum powder I was thinking of getting this http://www.ebay.com/itm/200544373823?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Its 625 mesh though. Is that too small?

[californiapyro]

thats odd i havent seen much 625 mesh... probably not the best for glitter

[Mumbles]

When you get to small particles, mesh ceases to have meaning. That said, the aluminum you posted will not work for the applications suggested. You posted flake. What you want is atomized. The mesh size is probably fine, but the shape is all wrong. 20 micron is usually around the size you want. Below is some good stuff for glitters and fountains.

 

http://www.hobbychemicalsupply.com/servlet/the-107/Alcoa-120-atomized-aluminum/Detail

[dagabu]

The mention of the -350 mesh aluminum was really an allusion to the $1.00 a pound stuff that a bloke was selling (and still may be) in July.

 

-dag

[NightHawkInLight]

The mention of the -350 mesh aluminum was really an allusion to the $1.00 a pound stuff that a bloke was selling (and still may be) in July.

 

-dag

 

Where at? I'm running low.

[dagabu]

Where at? I'm running low.

 

PM sent

[Tesla]

When you get to small particles, mesh ceases to have meaning. That said, the aluminum you posted will not work for the applications suggested. You posted flake. What you want is atomized. The mesh size is probably fine, but the shape is all wrong. 20 micron is usually around the size you want. Below is some good stuff for glitters and fountains.

 

http://www.hobbychem...aluminum/Detail

 

 

Thanks for the link. That's a cool web site, the best part is their located about an hour away from my house!

[Arthur]

To start pyro you will need to make great BP as a starter. The cr*p that you start with will make fountain comp later. The good BP will lift and break shells and with little bother you can make D1 Glitter and all the Willow stars and tiger tail, Get some titanium and you can add Slow Gold to your star types. That's a small show on very few chemicals! Just as CAliforniapyro said. Consider colour stars later possibly using perchlorate

 

 

kno3 sulfur charcoal dextrin aluminum titanium, you can do pyro for years with those!

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Step I: Making Black powder, charcoal streamer stars

potassium nitrate, sulphur, charcoal (two types: one for sparks, another to produce force), alcohol, dextrin

 

Step II: Making glitter stars

aluminum (atomized, -300mesh), sodium bicarbonate, boric acid

 

Step III: Making colored stars using organic fuels

potassium perchlorate, red gum, parlon, strontium carbonate, cupric oxide, copper carbonate (basic), barium carbonate, calcium carbonate

[50AE]

Beginner stuff judged from me personally.

 

Step 1.

 

Charcoal, potassium nitrate, sulfur - these are the most important and will be essential for pyro any time. Then dextrin - a binding agent. Master the making of black powder and them do some small shells, fountains using these. Buy aluminum, but the atomized grade. No need for flake now.

With these you may do some glitters, charcoal streamers. You can try to get some sodium nitrate, sodium (bi)carbonate.

 

When a beginner, you will have to learn yourself to always do some things:

-get familiar with each chemical and its properties (Reactivity, toxicity, compatibility)

-never skip safety tips

 

Step 2.

 

After meeting with the basics, you may purchase some exotic stuff - Ba, Sr, nitrates, carbonates, KClO4, resins (stuff for colored stars). Other metallic powders like coarse and medium MgAl, Ti, Zinc. Introduce yourself to organic colored stars first, do some fountains with the coarse metal powders. Do some tailed stars with Ti and MgAl. Then you could try metallic colored stars at last.

 

Step 3. Make sure you have met with the chemicals you have used. I'm lazy to write them all, but you should get familiar with all chemicals used with: pot nitrate based glitters and charcoal streamers, nitrate and KClO4 based organic/metallics, nitrate/KClO4 streamers.

 

Step4. Once you get a special feeling describing that:

-you care well of your workplace and everything is clean and tidy

-you can handle incompatibilities

-you want to squeeze more out of pyro

-you are self confident and you know you are strict in safety

 

You may proceed further

[Tesla]

Thanks for all the help, I'll start small and safe

[BillyBobBodean]

I too am new to this hobby. After reading the forums for a couple weeks, doing a lot of online research and watching numerous youtube videos I feel thanks to this community I am ready to take the first step.

[genrege]

I'm new to all this, and have read all the safety stuff and hopefully absorbed the important info, but this all centres on not blowing yourself up. What I'm really unsure about is the toxicity of the chemicals, especially when finely powdered. The ones I worry about are KClO3, Al, Mg and charcoal. What are their effects if inhaled, come into contact with the skin etc? Is there a cumulative effect and what should I really avoid?

 

Sorry if this is off topic, but as a newbie, I don't seem to be allowed to post a new topic!

[Mumbles]

None of the chemicals you mentioned are really all that toxic. If you get some on your skin, wash it off. Depending on the type of aluminum and charcoal, that may be easier said than done in certain cases. It wont harm you though, just messy. They may sting if you get it in open cut or something, especially KNO3, but again not toxic just unpleasant. If you inhale any of them it may cause irritation but wont cause much more than that.

 

These routes of exposure can be prevented by using gloves and a respirator. One of those paper dust masks is better than nothing, but I prefer half face respirators used for painting and stuff personally. I never have to really worry about inhaling anything with one.

 

The chemicals I'd be more worried about exposure to are all barium salts, lead salts, and antimony trisulfide. They all happen to be relatively dense and do not generally become airborne all that easily, but I'd still take caution. When working with these I'd make sure to wear gloves and a good respirator. When you're done wash up well. They can definitely can be worked with safely, however some degree of caution and preparation is required.

[mikeee]

You would be wise to limit your exposure to fine metals being inhaled.

They are not "toxic" but they can cause serious neurologic problems when they are absorbed into the body.

Major organs of the body tend to absorb these elements, causing complications later in life.

Use a dust mask when mixing these elements.

[Potassiumchlorate]

You would be wise to limit your exposure to fine metals being inhaled.

They are not "toxic" but they can cause serious neurologic problems when they are absorbed into the body.

Major organs of the body tend to absorb these elements, causing complications later in life.

Use a dust mask when mixing these elements.

 

Aluminium might make one senile. German Black can actually enter the blood stream through the skin and pass through the blood-brain barrier. I don't think magnesium is that dangerous in neurologic respect, since you actually need several hundred milligrams of it every day in your diet, but all metals are dangerous to the lungs, of course.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate

[Mumbles]

If you're talking about powdered metals causing metal fume fever or something like that, I could possibly buy that. If you're talking about the relatively high concentration of aluminum in the plaques produced during alzheimer's, then that is something that is not necessarily correlated with exposure to elemental Al. From what I've read on the matter, it has nothing to do with regular or chronic aluminum exposure. It happens due to a break down in the body's ability to excrete excess aluminum. I guess at that point in your life it could make things worse, but being exposed to powdered Al is not going to make you go crazy now nor make you more susceptible to Alzheimer's in the future.

 

I'd be interested to see some source that says that german black or other very fine aluminum powder can be absorbed through the skin or pass the blood brain barrier. Honestly, I don't believe it one bit.

[50AE]

A dust mask is highly important. From my point of view, any dust can be harmful to the lungs, especially no soluble chemicals.

 

Gloves come second. Personally I recommend them, not because many chemicals are toxic, but because of stains and esthetics. Working with charcoal and wet black powder for long periods of time will press dark stains on the pores of your skin and between your nails. If you don't mind looking like a car mechanic in the public, you should wear gloves .

 

Also when working with organic solvents like acetone, toluene, alcohol. They dry the skin and I also heard some of they are needed to complete the development of natural internal parasites in our body. Not sure about this though.

 

And when speaking about highly toxic chemicals, be careful with accumulative ones, like many heavy metal salts.

Edited May 18, 2012 by 50AE

[Potassiumchlorate]

I can't give any 100% proof, but really fine German Black is 1-3µm. A trombocyte is 2-3µm. At least I'd say that it's no good to handle any big amounts of German Black without gloves and breathing protection.