VintageRacer Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The other day I looked in my chems cabinet and there sat a large bag of brown powder that I really don't remember buying or receiving in trade for anything. My first thought was oh that's red gum, and with a quick sniff test I thought maybe not. No odor to it. The only red gum I ever bought had a very distinct odor to it. It's one of my favorite pyro smells right along with standard BP. So I compared this stuff to what I have as purchased red gum, by doing an alcohol test on my finger with some. Both had the same result of reddish brown stickiness that you would expect from red gum and alcohol. I think that somebody had given this to me and I just don't remember the situation at the time. Any other ideas or tests to be certain this is red gum? Have you ever had any that didn't have that sweet perfume odor? Thanks, DanB
FrankRizzo Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) The really nice airmilled stuff that Jeff imported a few years ago doesn't have much of an odor, unlike the "perfume-y" stuff that was being sold previously by Skylighter and others. Mix it 7:3 with potassium perchlorate, and it should give you a nice lilac flame. It may also be gilsonite? Edited November 24, 2011 by FrankRizzo
stckmndn Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 If you're in the US I could mail you a spoonfull of my red gum for comparison.
Peret Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Shellac is yellow-brown, red gum is red-brown and phenolic resin is orange. They all go sticky with alcohol.
VintageRacer Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) The really nice airmilled stuff that Jeff imported a few years ago doesn't have much of an odor, unlike the "perfume-y" stuff that was being sold previously by Skylighter and others. Mix it 7:3 with potassium perchlorate, and it should give you a nice lilac flame. It may also be gilsonite? Didn't see any lilac to it. I have all the others, red gum, shellac, and phenolic resin, so maybe it is gilsonite. That's the only other thing I see close by description. Never thought I'd have a bag of something laying around I couldn't identify... I now want to compare it against the same test using what I know to be red gum and see how it burns. Thanks for the ideas people. DanB Edited December 2, 2011 by VintageRacer
Algenco Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Iron oxide? That's what I wondered, but the weight should give it away
dagabu Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 The other day I looked in my chems cabinet and there sat a large bag of brown powder that I really don't remember buying or receiving in trade for anything. My first thought was oh that's red gum, and with a quick sniff test I thought maybe not. No odor to it. The only red gum I ever bought had a very distinct odor to it. It's one of my favorite pyro smells right along with standard BP. So I compared this stuff to what I have as purchased red gum, by doing an alcohol test on my finger with some. Both had the same result of reddish brown stickiness that you would expect from red gum and alcohol. I think that somebody had given this to me and I just don't remember the situation at the time. Any other ideas or tests to be certain this is red gum? Have you ever had any that didn't have that sweet perfume odor? Thanks, DanB Drop a pinch in water, red iron oxide will turn the water red in seconds while the red gum will float on top and slowly sink with very little color change... At least it worked for my chems here. -dag
Algenco Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Gilsonite is black., seems coffe milled. hmm, the Gilsonite I have is more of a dark brown
oldguy Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 hmm, the Gilsonite I have is more of a dark brown Some of the “Gilsonite” I bought was in chunks, and pieces which look about like hard shiny coal, almost like obsidian. Ground to a fine powder, it took on a brownish hue.
nater Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The gilsonsite I have is brown and smells like tar. I recently used up the last of some air milled red gum from skylighter and I don't recall any odor, good or bad from it at all.
VintageRacer Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Well the mystery continues. This stuff is definitely darker brown than the tubes and casings we use.... brown like red gum and fairly light weight. I have red iron oxide and as Al said, the weight would of been the give-away with that one. No tar smell that I can tell, it may be reg gum from another source. I appreciate all the ideas and civilized responses in helping me attempt to solve this particular mystery. I had considered posting this over on PF, then decided to just skip the whole testosterone pool and save myself the probable criticisms.... Many thanks guys, DanB Edited December 5, 2011 by VintageRacer
dagabu Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I had considered posting this over on PF, then decided to just skip the whole testosterone pool and save myself the probable criticisms....DanB Dan, I hear you man, one slip of the tongue and they get the nails and hammer. Have you tried to mix some with BP and see if it acts as a fuel? Iron Oxide will retard it while Red Gum will act as a fuel. -dag
Mumbles Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Mixing it with alcohol would clearly differentiate red gum from iron oxide. One will dissolve and get sticky, where one will sink to the bottom. That alone might not be a bad test to confirm or deny the identity. Relatively few things will dissolve in alcohol to make something sticky. If it does you're pretty much down to red gum, shellac, or phenolic resin. If it is not top quality red gum the presence of undissolved sticks, sand, dirt, etc would pretty much ensure it is red gum.
VintageRacer Posted December 6, 2011 Author Posted December 6, 2011 Mixing it with alcohol would clearly differentiate red gum from iron oxide. One will dissolve and get sticky, where one will sink to the bottom. That alone might not be a bad test to confirm or deny the identity. Relatively few things will dissolve in alcohol to make something sticky. If it does you're pretty much down to red gum, shellac, or phenolic resin. If it is not top quality red gum the presence of undissolved sticks, sand, dirt, etc would pretty much ensure it is red gum. Thanks Mumbles, I'm labeling it as red gum with my conclusion based on the following: The first test was comparison of the SL labeled red gum to the unknown substance with alcohol, by rubbing a little on my thumb and index finger. Both had the same color and stickiness. The unknown substance is milled well and fluffy, but even so, if this were actually red iron oxide (which has a much deeper color in it's natural state) the size of bag I have would of made it about 10lbs at least. The bag I have I can pick up with a couple of fingers. I have shellac flakes and I don't think anyone would of given me a small fortune in shellac. The 10lbs of phenolic I have is chunks, clear/orange in color, and when I milled some of it I found out how sticky that stuff is. I can distinguish phenolic in powder form by feel and smell. Solving chemical mysteries is not really high on my "cabin fever list of fun things to do" so the next time I trade or receive something from somebody, I'll be certain to label it there on the spot before I get distracted by something else. DanB
WSM Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Thanks Mumbles, I'm labeling it as red gum with my conclusion based on the following: The first test was comparison of the SL labeled red gum to the unknown substance with alcohol, by rubbing a little on my thumb and index finger. Both had the same color and stickiness. The unknown substance is milled well and fluffy, but even so, if this were actually red iron oxide (which has a much deeper color in it's natural state) the size of bag I have would of made it about 10lbs at least. The bag I have I can pick up with a couple of fingers. I have shellac flakes and I don't think anyone would of given me a small fortune in shellac. The 10lbs of phenolic I have is chunks, clear/orange in color, and when I milled some of it I found out how sticky that stuff is. I can distinguish phenolic in powder form by feel and smell. Solving chemical mysteries is not really high on my "cabin fever list of fun things to do" so the next time I trade or receive something from somebody, I'll be certain to label it there on the spot before I get distracted by something else. DanB Most of the red gum I've ever gotten has been an orange-brown color with a faint odor, unique to red gum. One time I got some very dark brown red gum that was very fragrant, almost like purfume. It was very resinous without the usual bark and other debris usually found in red gum. WSM
Potassiumchlorate Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 My red gum is reddish-orange-brown. It smells a bit "earthy". My shellac smells more. The shellac smells very pleasant and more like "perfume" in my humble opinion.
VintageRacer Posted December 12, 2011 Author Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) Ok I thought I was content with my reasoning and decision that it is Red Gum. Today I received a request for some of that WOOD MEAL I had spoke of months back in PF (for silent salutes etc...) and that got me thinking. Ah Ha! I bet now I know what this is I have. Early in the summer they had a huge project down at the shop and were cutting and milling this thick 2" composite stuff that is either MDF or similar. I believe that I scooped up a bunch off of the mill while it was clean dust and not contaminated with other shavings or particles. Makes sense too that it's in a plastic bag and not labeled. More than likely, and the wife will probably remember this once I mention it, I took some thinking it was the prime opportunity to do so and stored it away never thinking about it again. I also have some Pine dust... The one thing that is kind of odd if it is MDF or other wood product dust, is the results of the finger and alcohol tests. It was really identical to the Red Gum results. Sticky and reddish brown. I'll have to repeat that very test again just for the heck of it but I feel pretty sure that it's collected wood dust. It might very well be another potential binder... like I need another. DanB Edited December 12, 2011 by VintageRacer
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