nater Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 As some of you know, I intend to work on a rocket inspired by the old Blue Streak Rockets from Phantom. In my opinion, they were one of the best consumer rockets for a few years and have since suffered the fate of the CPSC regulations. They're still available, but if you shot one from 4-5 years ago, you know they're not the same. The consumer version is a 1/2" BP rocket with the header effects pressed in the motor tube right on top of the fuel grain. It breaks to blue stars with silver fish, it used to have a nice round break with a hefty pop for such a small rocket. It hasn't been just the noise dialed back, but the number of garnitures has suffered as well. So, there has to be a better way. I'm going to stray quite a bit from the original design. The first plans I have drawn up will be a 3" ID cylinder shell with 3/8" pumped stars, with a ring of Ti go-getters just on the inside of the stars. The shell will be tall enough for 2 rings of go-getters stacked on top of each other. Burst will be BP boosted with whistle until I get the break I want. I am hoping for a strong break, without a distracting flash. The header is topped off with a bottom shot / tube busting salute using a scaled down method that Dan Thames wrote up in a recent PGI Bulletin. The motor will be a Hybrid or Super Whistle Fuel pressed on a 3/4" U/H spindle from Firesmith. I want to try a few different tail effects, but I think some ti in the delay with a small blue comet on top of the shell would compliment the header. For most experienced people this would be a rather simple project. I'm not experienced, so I have a lot to learn along the way. Someone else mentioned they had a design to share , so I figured I might as well start a thread and maybe a few of us can turn out similar rockets and learn from each other. If all goes well, I'll have a dialed in version to fly at PGI in LaPorte. The drawing below isn't quite to scale, but it is my first plan for a header. I also plan on trying a similar concept with a 3" ball shell and one ring of the ti go-getters.
stckmndn Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 Nice. Mine will be a 1.6" can lifted by a traditional 8 oz core burner motor. I'm using a bundle of 44 pieces of silver fish fuse with a single ring of electric orange stars. Just 'cause I have those stars on hand. My preference though is Pihko blue #2. Burst is whistle as well. I'll post a drawing of my wishfull thinking tomorrow.
stckmndn Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 I have read that producing a single ring from a canister shell is near impossible. Has anyone here done it?
stckmndn Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 blue streak idea Will probably skip the strapping tape.
Peret Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I have read that producing a single ring from a canister shell is near impossible. Has anyone here done it?I've only made three canister shells. Two of them blew the end out, the canister stayed intact. The third, that contained a ring of salute inserts, burst properly and made a nice ring in the sky. The inserts were the full length of the canister though - it probably wouldn't have worked so well with stars.
stckmndn Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I'll pound the rocket this weekend with my shiny new 8 oz tooling from Wolter. And I know the rocket will fly because I have made the recommended conservative fuel. I have the can made and filling the little guy shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Give me a week and I'll post the video of my success or failure. I'm pretty stoked either way.
nater Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Sounds like you have a little more progress than I do. I have my idea and I'm working on a press to make my motors. When I first got the idea, I was going to use flying fish fuse, but the PGI competition rules state you have to make everything, plus since I'm scaling the motor up bigger inserts will look better. I made some 1.75" cylinder shells with fish fuse and they worked just as I expected, nice, simple, effect.
Mumbles Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 If you want to go the home made route, you can always press up some small serpents. If you stick with the 3/8" blue stars on the outside in a 3" can shell, you can fit about 11 to an interior ring if you use 1/4" ID x 3/8" OD tubes. It also happens to leave just about a perfectly sized cavity in the center for the burst (1", at least that's what I use on 3" shells)
nater Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Serpents like you described were the other thing I was going to test side by side with go-getters to see what I like the best. I've been wanted to get a set of SBR tooling from Steve M, but I might try some simple wood tooling using a nail as the spindle to just to get some tests done soon. I have about 3 weeks until our last club shoot of the year to get ready.
stckmndn Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 You really aren't allowed to use fish fuse? It's not like that's something you can make on your own. I'm trying to keep my design as dirt simple as possible. The fish will always work just fine of course. It's the perfect single ring of stars that would be a big achievement. Check out Wichitabuggywhip. He did some experiments along this vein to no avail. My first try will be a naked unspiked can hoping the centered whistle will light my well primed little rolled stars and push them straight out the sides with equal force.
stckmndn Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Excuse my multiple posts but I'm stuck with only my phone and if I'm not quick enough I get timed out and the post is lost. I give myself about a 10% chance of success with this design. No worries, there are contingency plans... Failures are a downer but they really force you to think.
Mumbles Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 The competition rule book is a little vague about if flying fish would be allowed. In the shell section it states "Commercial fuse, black powder, tubes, discs, and round shell casings are allowed in construction at all levels." It says something similar in the rocket section about the motors themselves. However in the general requirements on page 3 it singles out that time fuse as being allowed. This may be something to ask on the PGI competition list.
nater Posted November 26, 2011 Author Posted November 26, 2011 I could ask on the list and get a definite answer, and nobody may even care about fish fuse in the header in the beginner classes, but I think the spirit of the competition is to make the garnitures and assemble everything yourself. They do forbid using commercial stars and bits of fuse are pretty close to using commercial stars. Besides, I shouldn't have trouble making functional inserts in the next 9 months.
stckmndn Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 That's understandable in the spirit of competition. My personal PGI's are held out in the desert wilderness with few spectators and only one rule - don't start a fire. And if you do be prepared to put it out. Is there really such a thing as commercial stars? That was my first question regarding this hobby.
Peret Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Is there really such a thing as commercial stars? That was my first question regarding this hobby.Yes, but not available to the general public. If you join a club and go to a club event you can buy them inexpensively from the 1.3G vendors. There usually isn't much selection though. Perhaps you might consider joining WPA after the first of the year?
californiapyro Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 haha yes, yes there are. i'm not a fan of them personally, they tend to be not very good color. but the size is consistent. i was a little shocked when I saw them at first. and theyre $10/LB. i prefer to make my own, its cheaper and better
glitterbug Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 blue streak idea Will probably skip the strapping tape. Your drawing is very easy to understand. Tell me, did you seal the ends of your fish fuse?. Are you using a cannule or bag to contain your whistle or burst charge?. Is the fusing secured to your cannule in any way? Your design looks very promising. Let me know how is goes. Thanks
stckmndn Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks glitterbug. Drawings are easy, results are found through much trial and error. I don't believe this design will work but it serves as my starting point in solving this particular dilemma. I use a burst Canulle which is two turns of thin masking paper glued with a very thin bead of white glue. Then slide the paper 1/8" over the end of the former, crimp over, add glue and press down into place.
stckmndn Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 So the whistle is contained in this burst canulle. Make it only as high as you need it to be leaving room to fold the ends over like a roll of coins. Now your burst is centered and will not migrate. The top ends of the fish have been each blunted by a dab of white glue. The fuse canulle is a roll of thin masking paper rolled with beads of white glue sized to suit the hole in your disc.
stckmndn Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 But here's the deal. I know of no one who has been able to produce a single ring of stars from a can. This is holy grail stuff. I have plans to make a disc that covers the top of the stars to help promote horizontal burst. That was tried by Danny Creagan without success. So we prod on. The Chinese figured it out and so will we.
stckmndn Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 My can is made but first I have to test my first 8 oz motor. Guys, this is going to take some time before we get it right.
Thunderr1 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) ... Edited November 28, 2011 by Thunderr1
nater Posted November 28, 2011 Author Posted November 28, 2011 Please, lets keep that discussion to that site and not in this thread. I posted the same thing over there in hopes of keeping the discussion here just about the pyro.
Mumbles Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Passfire. Please don't let that kind of stuff bleed over to here. If you choose not to help someone, or ignore them here, that is your choice, but please leave the insults out of it.
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