Priming a parlon bound star

[dangerousamateur]

Hi fellows,

 

I've got some fresh little cubes of Emarald Green stars here.

 

Question No.1:

What prime would you use? Is green mix enough?

I was under the impression that theese stars are easier to light than other nitrate stars because of the presence of perchlorate & sulphur...?

 

Question No.2:

I had problems to get the prime sticking to the star.

The prime is dextrine bound, but the star surface cannot be dissolved by wetting.

 

How do you handle that?

 

I had that problem before, the prime crumbles away after drying. Later the breakcharge will blow the prime away and I find naked stars on the ground.

[Potassiumchlorate]

KP/red gum/silicon, 70:20:10. Alcohol as solvent.

 

The parlon seems to make the stars a bit harder to ignite, when you use it as the binder, but on the other side the stars are dry within hours and water can't destroy them.

[dangerousamateur]

That sounds similar to the "pinball" prime.

 

I guess it needs some meal priming itself, right?

 

 

And how does it adhere to the parlon bound star...?

 

 

 

Do you wet the stars with acohol and roll them in the prime?

Or do you make a wet slurry and bath the stars in it?

 

I can imagine that some acetone in the prime would help to stick it to the star...good idea? Or is there some reason not to do it?

 

 

edit:

And maybe you can give me some further hints to make the prime stick to the star better.

Im usually making smaller stuff, and to get a decent break I like to use flash.

 

I want rock-hard indistructable stuff that can withstand vicious explosions.

Most stuff i did before crumbles to easily...

Edited November 10, 2011 by dangerousamateur

[Potassiumchlorate]

Yes, it's similar to pinball prime. Maybe pinball prime is even better; I haven't tested it yet.

 

It's very simple. You put the stars with prime in a plastic bag. It doesn't even have to be ziploc, just plastic. Then you spray alcohol into the bag. Then you "rub" the bag, so that the prime is kind of "smeared" onto the stars. You'll have to repeat it a few times; it takes a while until it sticks to the stars.

 

No acetone is needed in the alcohol.

 

If you use flash burst, this prime is all that you'll need.

 

For making it even stronger, you can use NC-laquer instead of pure acetone. I have used this for Electric Magenta with good results.

[Megabusa]

I use BP mill dust with 2% dex & 7% Si added.

 

The Si is about 100 mesh & is added after milling.

 

I make a bowlfull of this prime & roll the fresh cut stars in it whilst they are still wet. I then roll them in a large sieve to remove excess.

 

I have never had any failures like this.

 

It's difficult to be certain, but I would say 100% of my stars ignite every time.

[Potassiumchlorate]

There are two kinds of stars that ignite to 100%:

 

1. BP type stars.

2. Organic chlorate stars.

 

With Davis' White antimony trisulfide stars ("BP" type) and Bleser's Aqua (barium and potassium chlorate stars) I have 100% ignition. With parlon bound stars I estimate it to some 70-80%, even with hot prime.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Potassiumchlorate

[Col]

I bind parlon stars with acetone and use denatured alcohol for 2 step priming, it works for me.

[Algenco]

Fencepost prime has never failed me

[Potassiumchlorate]

The stars are harder to ignite, when parlon is used as the binder, though. When the stars contain parlon but use dextrin or SGRS as the binder, they ignite much easier.

[50AE]

@potassium chlorate, organic chlorate stars do not 100% ignite, I have stated this before. They may, but it largely depends of a few factors:

 

-chlorate quantity in the comp

-kind of chlorate (if it's barium, you may forget about 100% sometimes)

-fuels presents (sluggish fuels as shellac will lower the chance of ignition

-coloring agents (carbonates will give trouble)

-star shape, of course. Rolled resin stars aren't the same as rolled charcoal ones.

 

Let me give some own personal experiences of failure

-composition based on KClO3 as main oxidizer, 15% CaCO3 and shellac as main fuel. The stars barely ignited from about 0,6mm of BP, cut stars. While I agree 0,6mm BP is unreliable for many stars, it should ignite a chlorate one.

-unprimed red cut stars in a ball shell - maybe I did get 70-80% ignition. The comp was based on red gum, shellac and SrCO3

 

The only chlorate stars that have always reliably ignited for me, are the blue ones. They are quite reactive and I suspect it because Cu salts catalyze the reaction and there are no carbonates.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Yes, it depends, but the blue ones always ignite, like you said, and with red gum as the resin fuel they ignite much better than with shellac.

 

This blue ignites extremely easily, without any prime at all, despite being parlon bound:

 

Potassium chlorate 58

Copper(II)oxide 15

Parlon 15

Red gum 9

Magnesium 3

 

But then again it contains both potassium chlorate, lots of copper(II)oxide and a small amount of magnesium.

[petroleum]

Hi fellows,

 

I've got some fresh little cubes of Emarald Green stars here.

 

Question No.1:

What prime would you use? Is green mix enough?

I was under the impression that theese stars are easier to light than other nitrate stars because of the presence of perchlorate & sulphur...?

 

Question No.2:

I had problems to get the prime sticking to the star.

The prime is dextrine bound, but the star surface cannot be dissolved by wetting.

 

How do you handle that?

 

I had that problem before, the prime crumbles away after drying. Later the breakcharge will blow the prime away and I find naked stars on the ground.

 

I use Hot Prime by Shimizu (KClO4/Red Gum/Charcoal+ some % of MgAl)

In practice if I use brush to prime the star or large comet from one side with hot prime + solvent mix, the consistence of mix is no good and it is difficult to work with. I resolve the problem using hot prime with diluted NC laquer. The mix have a good consistence and adhesion power.

 

 

 

[dangerousamateur]

@Petroleum:

Does that need another layer of BP on top, or does it work as single step?

[petroleum]

@Petroleum:

Does that need another layer of BP on top, or does it work as single step?

 

Yes! It is preferably to use somewhat "easier" on the top.

[Potassiumchlorate]

But dangerousamateur seems to make small shells with flash burst. Flash should be hot enough to ignite it as it is.

 

I made a 2" Electric Magenta once and filled both hemispheres with small 5 mm cut stars. The stars were bound with parlon and NC-lacquer. Then 5 grams of 70:30 KP flash as a burst. No prime. Most stars ignited.

[californiapyro]

anyone recommend a good KP-based prime that requires no outer prime? (for AP stars)

[Potassiumchlorate]

Yes. I've posted this one before in another thread, but anyway:

 

Hardt Prime #6

 

Potassium perchlorate 37

Charcoal, airfloat 30

Lead tetraoxide 22

Silicon 7

Dextrin 4

[Arthur]

Remembering that cut stars are primed before they dry by dusting them over or by shaking them in a bowl of prime, maybe the parlon bound stars should be primed while they are still tacky and able to grab the first coat of prime into the parlon ball. Often the method is as important as the recipe, often the recipe is given but the techniques and method are not.

[Potassiumchlorate]

The thing is that cut parlon stars are often too soft. They won't keep their shape if you put them into the prime.

 

The best is to roll them, but then you'll need lots of patience or a machine roller.

 

I have pumped some parlon stars, though, and it's possible to avoid stickyness etc., if you use the exactly right amount of acetone. Then, just like most pumped stars, they won't be as soft either.

[dan999ification]

yes the right amount of acetone is the key i use 35ml per 100g of comp and prime veline cut stars while wet and again when dry with the same prime that requires no outer bp prime [ as yet ], i'll dig the prime comp out.

 

dan.

 

 

[Mumbles]

It's very easy to prime cut stars without moving them. Put the patty on a bed of prime, and then dust the patty with more prime before cutting. Cut as usual. The cutting action brings prime between the stars and helps to avoid them sticking back together normally, but also primes them. I've also said this many times. Adding alcohol to the acetone will greatly reduce how sticky the stars are.

 

Californiapyro, if you apply the outer (BP) prime with NC lacquer, there wont be any issues with nitrates and AP. I'd bet something like phenolic resin either to bind the star or the prime would could be made to work as well.

[californiapyro]

oh, good suggestion mumbles. does there have to be a solid layer of kperc prime in between them? in other words will the NC protect the AP from the kno3?

[californiapyro]

also any primes without expensive and toxic chems? if i were going that route i'd use veline prime, at least it's cheap and toxic thanks for the formula anyways KCL

[Mumbles]

AP stars tend to be somewhat prone to being blow out. I'd use a perchlorate based prime between the BP and star just for good measure, but it does also help to have a barrier in there just as an added insurance policy.

 

I forgot to mention that you can probably use KP (the burst comp) as a final prime to ensure it all lights. I've also heard that using fencepost prime with potassium perchlorate instead of nitrate works well, and should probably be a single layer type of thing. Pinball prime also is quite good, though I still give it a final dusting of BP for good measure.

[Potassiumchlorate]

AP gives some of the best blue colours, but it's expensive, incompatible with chlorates and many nitrates and as mentioned prone to be blown out/not ignite.