Andrew Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Hi everyone, I've been into pyrotechnics for a while now and since i've turned 18 I decided to have a little experimentation with flash powder. Yes, I know it's a very powerful mixture and extremely sensitive in certain combinations. Anyway, after researching I decided to go for the Potassium Perchlorate and Dark Aluminium powder mixture, in 70/30 respectively. I know that this is still not "safe", however i've been told it's one of the more stable versions. So I bought the ingredients and made a small test batch of 1 gram, after setting that set off just on a piece of paper I realised how volatile this stuff was and decided to take as many safety precautions as possible. I use the "diaper" method to mix the chemicals, I wear gloves, goggles and a face mask and I touch metal to remove the static from me, is there anything else I could do to make it even more safe? As a side note im making a few bangers for bonfire night on saturday and im thinking of putting 3 grams of the mixture into the cardboard tubes I bought then plugging the ends with the provided plugs. I always get paranoid when im pouring the mixture into the tubes, especially when im inserting the last end plug because I have to push down a bit. Should I be this paranoid or is the mixture not THAT sensitive? I dont want to take any risks and want to make sure I enjoy the hobby safely, Thanks in advance.
dagabu Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Andrew, Just make sure that you have them off the ground and keep everyone well away from them. If they are on the ground when they go off, they will throw projectiles all around at a high velocity. -dag
Arthur Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Firstly 3g is too much when confined in a tube it could be unpleasantly loud and damaging, try half a gram. For flash in small batches then PPE can help -that's Personal Protective Equipment! Long sleeves, long trousers, shirt buttoned up, gloves that you can work tidyly in. Cover ALL skin. If you can find a welder's leather apron, it's a good plan. Beyond 100g there is little point in PPE as the shock wave will get you before the medics. Anti static and anti friction, both sound good. Clothes with carbon fibre in the fabric, even a antistatic wrist strap from the electronics industry. with flash of any sort, concentrate on what you are doing or the flash will bite back. I'm happy to make batches of 1g! I rarely use any and I certainly don't want flash waiting in the store.
dan999ification Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 dont fill the tubes with three grams, projectiles broken windows etc plus a lot of decibels [ too much as arthur said] at ground level. they should not be full enough that you have to push hard on the plugs if your worried about friction ive seen people use a funnel to avoid covering the inner wall with comp where you push the plug.seriously test half gram or 1 gram first you may be shocked dan.
Andrew Posted November 3, 2011 Author Posted November 3, 2011 Thanks for all the answers, i'll get a hold of some of the PPE Im glad I came here and asked first, you see people on youtube cram 100g in tubes which seems pretty stupid, ill go for the half gram and test it out, Thanks again!
Andrew Posted November 4, 2011 Author Posted November 4, 2011 One last thing - I just read that 1lb of flash powder can damage windows at 1/4 of a mile, is that actually true? I didn't think it would be capable of breaking windows.
Arthur Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 0.2g of flash will make a banger! 0.5g will make a banger that could be dangerous. Bangers on a hard surface like good tarmac or concrete make noise bangers on soft earth or turf make a little mess, but bangers on gravel or small stones make bad shrapnel. PPE - I've seen pics of USA pyros wearing T-shirt and shorts - you may have nice weather but you are not going to have nice skin if it gets burned. Burns hurt, no burns HURT LOTS! plus if you go to hospital with burns you may get the police asking questions. I use this firm ( I am in the UK ) http://www.specialistworkclothing.co.uk/ They supply nomex clothes and clothes of other fire resistant grades. Nomex trousers and FR long sleeve shirt should be a reasonable minimum. I'm thinking of a nomex fleece because we in the UK fire mostly on Nov 5th when it is always cold and wet. I really cannot imagine that the USA does not have a similar supplier of fire resistant clothes. -Look for motor sport overalls too in the UK most motorsport overalls and nomex and they have nomex underwear too. Would one of the USA members please see whether you have suitable PPE suppliers in the USA.
Potassiumchlorate Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 One last thing - I just read that 1lb of flash powder can damage windows at 1/4 of a mile, is that actually true? I didn't think it would be capable of breaking windows. It's possible, yes. And 1lb will be heard several miles away. 1 oz will probably be enough to be heard 4-6 miles away. I spray antistatic starch spray on my hands before mixing flash.
dagabu Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 PPE - I've seen pics of USA pyros wearing T-shirt and shorts - you may have nice weather but you are not going to have nice skin if it gets burned. Burns hurt, no burns HURT LOTS! plus if you go to hospital with burns you may get the police asking questions. Making bangers, heavy cotton is fine for PPE, it's your hands and eyes that you really want to protect, cotton will keep small flash fires from burning. All of the set up and such done in the summer is done in shorts and t-shirts due to heat and mobility. Trust me, we fully understand the risk. Firing the shells is different and a lot of us use turnout gear for that. It's possible, yes. And 1lb will be heard several miles away. 1 oz will probably be enough to be heard 4-6 miles away. I spray antistatic starch spray on my hands before mixing flash. I think that there has been too much sensationalism of flash here, there were lots of 500g salutes lit off at PGI last summer where the distance to cars, people and such was only a few hundred feet and window glass was not affected at all. Flash must be respected but to assign it HE status is not necessary. -dag
dan999ification Posted November 5, 2011 Posted November 5, 2011 i agree on the sensationalism, it must still be respected and handled with care.single galzed windows dont like shockwaves i once tested a shell insert with half a gram near the back door the windows rattled as the wave bouced off and the ali frames made a ping sound not much unlike a bell or gong, if that was three grams i think it would have broken, i do however doubt that you could break a window from 1/4 mile single glazed or not, just be sensible and careful.another time half gram again the wave knocked my camera over from 5 ft. dan.
Potassiumchlorate Posted November 5, 2011 Posted November 5, 2011 It's unlikely that the windows will break, though not impossible. But aside from that it's not recommendable to set off more than a few grams, if you have grumpy neighbours or just lots of neighbours living close to you.
psyco_1322 Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 Andrew, to answer your question about the end plugs, you will be ok pushing them in. Flash with no sulfur in it is relatively safe, with sulfur, it lowers ignition temps and increases friction and impact sensitivity. I would advise putting some glue, I'd use hot glue, around the fuse and end plugs. This will reduce the chance that a stray spark from the fuse could touch off the powder inside. It's not likely to happen but fine powders find holes really easy and can leak out. I have personally filled many tubes and ran a ring of hot glue around the inside of the tube before inserting the paper plugs and pushing them in flush with the tube. 3g is enough to be comparable to shooting off a shotgun in your backyard. They do sound nice, but might be a little much for a quite neighborhood. If there is going to be people shooting off a thousand dollars of fireworks on your block, you could get a way with a few. Just use common sense. I've stood within 150 foot of pounds and pounds of flash being set off, the sound is very high, but the actual blast wave diminishes significantly after a few feet. A really strong salute around the 10-15lb range that really has a deep thump might effect nearby objects.
nater Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 my car has been within 200 - 300 feet from salutes in the 10+ lb range and more exotic comps and suffered no damage. i have heard of things breaking, but i am suspicious that they were not already damaged or broken. i have a hard time imagining that a heavy salute fired a safe distance from buildings and spectators would cause more damage than a strong rumble of thunder. that said, i think 1 gram makes a good enough bang for a backyard. i think it would be a fair limit for consumer devices.
dagabu Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 my car has been within 200 - 300 feet from salutes in the 10+ lb range and more exotic comps and suffered no damage. i have heard of things breaking, but i am suspicious that they were not already damaged or broken. i have a hard time imagining that a heavy salute fired a safe distance from buildings and spectators would cause more damage than a strong rumble of thunder. that said, i think 1 gram makes a good enough bang for a backyard. i think it would be a fair limit for consumer devices. I put 1g in my timed reports just like TR and they still crack pretty good at 500', 1g on the ground makes a hell of a bang and throws rocks. -dag
nater Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 I put 1g in my timed reports just like TR and they still crack pretty good at 500', 1g on the ground makes a hell of a bang and throws rocks. -dag True, even crackers like that I suspend to keep the rocks from being thrown. Most people probably wouldn't do that. I have had a TK insert misfire and pop near my face, I haven't weighed them to see what is inside, but I had tiny bits of gravel embedded in my leg and small amount of blood coming out of my eardrums. I wasn't wearing any safety gear and only had shorts and a t-shirt on since it was open shooting, I wasn't shooting anything and walking towards a safety meeting. Be careful with bangers, even small ones.
Andrew Posted November 6, 2011 Author Posted November 6, 2011 Well the 1g bangers I made for last night were pretty successful, really loud, even for just a gram! But yeah it was good and no one got hurt, although quite a few of them got a little shock. Thanks again for all the answers
Mortartube Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 One last thing - I just read that 1lb of flash powder can damage windows at 1/4 of a mile, is that actually true? I didn't think it would be capable of breaking windows. I know a man who had to blow a 30ft cabin cruiser boat apart for an episode of a TV series. He used 1lb of flashpowder and petrol and naphtha bursts for fireball effects. The boat was literally blown to pieces with the power of he flashpowder.
dan999ification Posted November 6, 2011 Posted November 6, 2011 I haven't weighed them to see what is inside, they were limited to 1.8 g here before last years ban i wonder if they ever come back watered down. dan.
warthog Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 I have sent some pretty stout salutes aloft but I haven't really tried to make "bangers". I guess I am just not a firecracker type person. I do like a good loud BOOOOM from a salute though. I have always used antistatic spray and worn long sleeve, cotton clothing and tried to always work on humid days, dry air is a lot more prone to static build up. If it is something that MUST be done when the air is dry (read wintertime), I just figure it isn't needed and do something else. I make all my salutes for summer use, just keeps my mind more easy and I don't store flash. Except slow flash that is dusted onto my rice hulls for burst enhancement. Heck, you can get a pretty good bang out of a tube of rice hulls if you do it right, you just want to make a lot of gas, fast and confine it to get a good bang.
Potassiumchlorate Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Yes, flash is one of the few things in pyro, except for ballmilling, that actually benefits from humid weather.
dan999ification Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Yes, flash is one of the few things in pyro, except for ballmilling, that actually benefits from humid weather. if you use metals that dont like water or chems that leach acids when wet...different story, i also thought static was more of a risk in wetter/humid weather as it arcs faster through water droplets than it does dry air though you are more likely to have a static discharge in dryer weather when evrything is warm,vibrating and getting exited. dan.
Potassiumchlorate Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Oh, I meant ballmilling BP, of course, not metals. You might be right about water droplets conducting electricity better, but, like you also said, it's much more unlikely with static electricity in humid weather. I never experienced it myself in humid weather, but in cold, dry winter weather I often experience it when touching things like metallic car handles etc.
50AE Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Triangular firecrackers, aka polumnas are nice for beginners and fun. While I'm mostly into aerial fireworks, I must admit I still make bangers from time to time. Maybe it's a kind of nostalgia? Sometimes I just love the sound. I make two kinds of bangers: -Polumnas, easy to make, but I dislike two things: leaks and the lack of low, deep bass. They are fun though - you make tens of them in no time, then you go out and throw them. Now it's the season! When December comes, it's fireworks time and every neighbor knows it . No one is going to complain, unless you really begin to annoy them from unbearable continuous bangs. -Tube bangers - well, this is what I put in my shell with inserts, it's the same, but with visco instead of time fuse. Not a beginner thing to do though. I use a 1 1/5 inch tube and fill it with gray shiny stuff, then I seal with a little hot glue and then plugs of wood shavings and white glue. When dry, these make a very low bass and a heck of a bang when watched from about 20 meters. I just love the sound of these - DAANG, and the ground bellow my feet vibrates. Beginners should start with polumnas as bangers, and afterwards when they get more experienced with chemicals, comps and their properties, they might start with tube bangers.
Mumbles Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I really don't think you want to be recommending salutes of any kind of beginners. Static risks are much lower in humid weather. I wont work with flash or other sensitive mixes in humidity less than around 60%, and still coat myself with static spray.
spitfire Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Mumbles, you're absolutely right, but face the fact everyone starting in pyro is likely looking for bangers. Especially younger people. They will search and try it anyway, no matter what our moral is. You also know the chems are sold everywhere. For this forum i would have 2 goals: delete and ban all info on salutes and flash. The real pyro already knows the trick, no need to talk about it dozens of times, feeding beginners out of our hands. 2nd thought: put flash under the HE section. Edited November 12, 2011 by spitfire
Recommended Posts