Rooster Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Andyboy: Name of composition: Tiger Tail Composition Type: Charcoal streamer Creator: Takeo Shimizu Color/Effect: Long spider-web type tails The Composition:Kno3.........................44Charcoal (pref. Pine)...44Dextrin......................6Sulphur.....................6 Any Precautions/Incompatabilities: Contains sulphur, duh.Precedure/Preparation: Ball-mill the Potassium Nitrate with the charcoal for a few hours, add the sulphur and dextrin and ball-mill until it's properly mixed. I have only made rolled stars with this composition but i would think that pumped and cut stars would work equally well. ++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: I got some stills. I think I need to roll them bigger than 8mm to get them to their full effect. +++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: Ok, I know this is probably the wrong thread and section for it, but I couldn't find anything better, so... I have been using jarrah charcoal, just because I couldn't get any other dry woods, and noticed its lovely red burn colour, and sparks. I suppose if any of you wanted red sparks for your streamers, jarrah would be good. Here is the red tail from some Crysanthenum 6 stars, fired from a minehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/poorman/Starmines/redjrrahmine.jpg ++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Blind I know you have worked with both so can you explain the differences between this Tiger tail comp and say chrysanthemum 6? I am guessing it would burn a lot slower. And that shell looks beautiful. +++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: The chrysanthemum 6 burns very fast as you can see that I needed to make 3/4" comets in a starmine to get a decent burn time. Tiger tail burns a bit slower shown by the need for only 8mm stars. I think I will roll them bigger I don't know. Also the chrysanthemum 6 burns a birghter orange IMO but the tiger tail is less vigorous but doesn't burn as bright. Needless to say it still looks damn good! Soon I will make all of the shimizu firedust stars and compare them all. Something to do with all my pine charcoal. +++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Ok I might make a shell using C6 and a shell using these tiger tail stars to compare. I was also going to compare them with the charcoal streamer from AFN3. These tigertail stars burn slower which is good but not as bright which is bad. Hopefully the AFN3 streamer is good. Either way that shell is truely beautiful Blind. Also it was not mentioned...do these stars require a prime? and if so a heavy BP or dusting? +++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: I don't use a prime on any of the charcoal firedust stars. The ones in that 3" tiger tail shell were not primed in anyway - I think the ignition was rather good +++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Yes the ignition was good. There was just a lot of fuel in that comp so I didn't think it would be easily igniteable. I also thought that rolled stars might be harder to ignite due to the none sharpe points like cut stars which could take fire easier. I know there is a scientific term for this I just cant think of it. ++++++++++++++++++++++ DB: I had this composition in my ballmill all night and tried burning a loose pile of it earlier. It burned very slowly and on and off. Is this normal? +++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: No. I had it in my mortar and pestle for one minute and it burned fine. +++++++++++++++++++++++ pyropunk88: It would look neat to have a charcal streamer on a charcal streamer shell.Then it would look like a comet going up and exploding into large fragments. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Kinda similar to a crossete........A comet that then breaks up into smaller pieces. The effect your saying can also be made with a shell and a spoulette of the charcoal streamer mix. Wouldn't show up that well though. ++++++++++++++++++++++ pyropunk88: How are crossets made anyways. +++++++++++++++++++++++ andyboy: It's a comet with a cavity in it. Look at the tools on this page to get some idea of how it looks. http://www.wecreate4u.net/dwilliams/comet/comet.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DB: I shot a Tiger Tail star out of my star gun tonight. It was nice! The stars have been drying for about a week, I kinda forgot about them with school and all. You think the stars look nice in Blind's stills, but seeing them burn in real life will blow you away! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Yeah it's hard to capture effects on film I am testing a shell tonight with tiger tail to D1 glitter stars with some 1g flash in with meal of puffed rice. I am wondering if I should actually take a picture of the shell and risk getting a crap shot or actually filming it knowing I will get it. I think I will get someone else to take a picture of it while I film +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DB: By the look of your avatar I'd say that it worked nicely! Blind you need to be stopped, your shells are just too beautiful! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BongerMann: Is there a way to get the D1 glitter to last longer? Its a nice effect but really short. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Stopped? NEVER! I was dissapointed that the glitter didn't last longer, the comp burns very fast! I think I will go for winkor #24 perhaps and use SGRS instead of dextrin to make them water proof as they have sodium chloride in them which will make them hygroscopic. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: I finally made some Tiger Tail stars and they're beautiful! I fired a few out of a stargun and they were great! Then I always hold one in a pair of pliers and light it... well the TT stars make so many sparks it burn't my hand (not bad just the sparks)!! Anyhow I just made a round shell full of TT...but its to windy to fire it Hopefully I can fire it tomorrow! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 30, 2006 Author Posted January 30, 2006 pyrohawk: I fired it and it worked very nicely! So I made a Cylindrical shell and 2 starmines..... The starmines were great but the cylindrical shell exploded just after leaving the mortar! ++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Heres a photo of a my TT starmine. I thought it would look good here as I've yet to see a TT starmine by anybody! It shows the effect really well I think! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/pyrohawk_15/0540611-R1-048-22A.jpg ++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Could you perhaps say the diameter of the mine and size of stars? And if they were cut or rolled. +++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: It was a bag mine fired from a mortar that is 1 3/4" ID. The stars were cut. I already used them all up but if I remember they were about 8mm. +++++++++++++++++++++++ ohnosi: Nice mine, but I think you *might* be able to get a nicer picture if you didnt use the flash. The light from the stars should enough for the camera to capture nicely, unless your camera is bad at that. ++++++++++++++++++++++ ColdWarr2000: Got a ok vid of some tigertail stars, One of the stars decided it wanted to be a go-getter, You can see it go up the horizontally. The vid isnt to great I didnt capture everything. Ill do one tomm night and get a better vid. Tigertail Mine +++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: How many stars were in that? It looked like there were only about 5! I lit a mine the other night (it'd be about a week now) and I never thought to post the video here. I have a very original way of making mines...Haha, I poured some meal down a 1.5" mortar then poured on a heap of round TT stars then put a bit more meal in. It's a freaking powerful burst of stars! Yet the only confinement it the tube around it to direct the force up. Weird. Anyway, here's the video. I was too close to get the effect properly but you get the idea. How good is for just dropping meal and stars down a mortar though! http://www.geocities.com/look_another_free_host/TT_mine.mpg ++++++++++++++++++++++++ ColdWarr2000: Heh you are right it was 5, I was just testing them out since its the first time I made them. Plus I didnt want to put to many in cause the mortar tube im using is temperary untill i get my new ones in a few days or so. So I didnt want to use alot of TT +++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: "Nice mine, but I think you *might* be able to get a nicer picture if you didnt use the flash. The light from the stars should enough for the camera to capture nicely, unless your camera is bad at that." My camera has Auto Flash so it flashes when its dark.... like it or not! ++++++++++++++++++++++++ BongerMann: Cut out a bit of tape and place it over the flash window, add layers till the flash is gone. Like it or not it works +++++++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: When for chrysanthemum 6 is says a wet process must be used to incorporate the KNO3 into the charcoal, what exactly does that mean? How do you guys make that comp? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ somebody: The Water you put into the composition disolves a bit of the KNO3.That solution is saoced in the carcoal in it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ chris17 "When for chrysanthemum 6 is says a wet process must be used to incorporate the KNO3 into the charcoal, what exactly does that mean? How do you guys make that comp?" I ball mill the comp like BP and then i use water as solvent. Did this answer your question? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: You just dampen the KNO3 nad C lightly so its damp but should still flow as a powder. Then wait for it to dry before finishing making the mix. This just makes the mix more intimate but as, chris17 you can just ball mill it and probably get the same results... Why is this in the TT thread?? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: These tigertail stars are insanely hard to roll! I tried it with 50/50 alcohol water, but no such luck. They didn't spike too much, but went all oval and stuff. Also some were very small, other large. On the other hand, when I started out with some fish glitter cores(6-8mm diameter(about1/4")) the stars went totally round, even when rolled all the way up to 12-13mm(1/2"). The only problem was that the sizing was different, so I had to use the star plates a lot of times to get out the size I wanted +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ alany: You might want to try granulating very finely milled compositions, such as tiger tail, before trying to roll them. Just a quick moistening, knead and grate through a sieve is generally sufficient. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Oh yeah, forgot to tell you about that. Actually I did that with the TT comp. Slightly wetted, and granulated, then dried and milled it so it passed a kitchen sieve. The particles were quite fine, not many granules. Mostly powder, although not airfloat anymore. I suspect the problem would have been much worse with airfloat composition. I really think those color changers(actually changing tailed effects) look nice. I made a kilo or so, so plenty for testing. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: They do take thier sweet time don't they? I rolled fish glitter and TT last night for burn time tests. The glitter rolled fine (I used the small grain rice cut into quarters for cores). The TT took at least 45-60 minutes!! I guess they rolled only like a 1/100" with each layer!! But they did turn out pretty round. I find it makes them more spherical if you roll the stars around in the bowl fast, above the comp, then into the comp, wet, roll into the comp, then roll above it and so on. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I used even longer, like 2-3 hours on the straight TT stars. The cores are molecular sieves, which are round, do not break apart, but are different in sizing. Also, I am using a NASCAR tyre roller passfire-style. Im sure I will get the hang of them eventually ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 30, 2006 Author Posted January 30, 2006 Riddick: Quick question, why doesn't my star mix (comp. on page one was used) not light? I tried lighting it as a powder and it didn't burn, so I milled it, no change. I then proceeded to make a star out of some thinking it would allow some of the KNO3 to dissolve into the carbon, but still no light. In order to get it to burn on its own I had to make it a 50% BP to 50% star mix formula.... Anyone know why? I'm assuming that its something I did, or didn't do. My thinking is there is way to much carbon per Nitrate... I mean in relation to a BP mix (75 NO3- 15 C) how is 44 NO3 - 44 C going to work? +++++++++++++++++++ al93535: It works just fine. You don't need to ball mill it either. Just make sure each ingredient is very fine. Mix in a bag or through screening. After you make them into stars, (and they are dry) they will light up just fine. They are high in charcoal and require a LONG time to dry. I am in 10% humidity, they are kept in the shade in a shed at 90 degrees and they take a week to fully dry, but I let them sit at least 10 days to be sure. +++++++++++++++++++ Riddick: Hmmm... would it have anything to do with my charcoal being really fluffy? Its from an ash tree. ++++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: Nope, nothing at all. Unless it is actually ashes, like burnt past charcoal to ash. Describe your comp, and what ingredients you use. Maybe I can help. Are you sure your stars are dry?BTW, it will not burn as a loose powder. Not even with a propane torch. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Riddick: Well, thats not really an issue seeing as how it won't even burn as a powder.... I use black charcoal (don't worry its not ash) cooked from an ash tree. Then I use Greenlighs stump remover for KNO3, and my sulfer is 99% pure, then I add the dextrin. Maybe I miscalculated with my charcoal, my scale is large enough to weigh 44 grams, but I don't have a container that will hold that (my scale is not digital, no tare function). So I was forced to weigh out four ten gram increments of charcoal, and a fifth 4 gram increment. I suppose in the repetition I could have gotten lost and not know it (its been known to happen to people....) and added one to many ten gram increments of charcoal. Everything else was fine... I'm sure of it.... +++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: I have used greenlight as well, and my sulfur is only 90%. Either the charcoal is off, like you said, or the stars are not dry. Everything else looks good. ++++++++++++++++++++ Riddick: Its probly the charcoal, you appeared to not notice that I said it won't burn as a powder..... not wet at all. I'll remake it, bugs me, a waste of chems..... dirty.... Thanks for the help though ++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: If you look above I did say that it will not burn as a powder, not even with a propane torch. You'll get a few sparks, but it won't ignite. It has to be a star, and completely dry. ++++++++++++++++++++ Riddick: Oh..... I R blind.... Sorry about that. Then I guess you are correct that the stars I tried just weren't dry... Thanks! +++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Another prrobility.... Greenlight Stump Remover is in granules..... Did you thoroughly powder the KNO3 to a fine powder?? +++++++++++++++++++++ Riddick: Oh yea.... always ++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Here is a picture of my 8-10mm rolled tigertails. They look quite nice and round, dont they? I am quite happy myself. ++++++++++++++++++++ Swany: Pretty stars Rooster. I really need to make a roller some day. I made 100g of the 44/44/6/6 comp, though I don't tihnk I put in enough dextrin. I measured dextrin by eye and am quite positive it wasn't enough. My C was pine, all ingrediants were ground up before hand then ground in a coffee grinder for 1 min. After they dried, they were semi crumbly, and burn quite fast. A 1/2in star burns in under 1 second... so I rammed some of this into 3 in by 1/2id tubes and made some spinners. Very pretty. I was picking up the tube afterwords and my buddy noticed I had sparks all over me... there were still embers in the tube you could shake out. I'll post pics in the ground device section. My vid camera was dead. ++++++++++++++++++++ Draco_Aster: I there any chance that dextrin can be replaced with gum arabic? ++++++++++++++++++++ Swany: Chances are yes. Why dont you make dextrin? Very easy, just heat some corn starch/corn flour(name depends on where you live, its used to thicken stuff in cooking) at 200C in an oven until its golden brown. +++++++++++++++++++++ Pretty_Green_Flame: Ok, TT stars are cool for the price they are made. Here's a normal TT formula with a couple % of Al filings.Look carefully for little flashes at the end that's the aluminium. http://www.infernolabs.co.uk/filehost/TTwithAl.MOV ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mephistos Minion: Al you mention that will only burn as star. Is this the same for star called willow I think comp is 35 KNO3/45 C/ 12 S This powder wont burn untill I blowtorch it even then it is only a few sparks. Anyone know? +++++++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: Yup exactly the same. It will only burn as a star. This is true of all the high charcoal, low KNO3 stars. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ justanotherpyro: I can't really use my TT cut stars because the sparks hit the ground, even from a high bursting shell. Is crysanthmum 6 better than TT in regards to long lasting sparks? One of these days I'll use some different charcoal, but changing the stars size doesn't solve the problem of sparks hitting the ground. I remember there being a thread with some mention of this problem but I can't find it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Really? My TT stars don't burn that long... How big are they and do you make them via the traditional method? +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 30, 2006 Author Posted January 30, 2006 justanotherpyro: They don't burn very long themselves, but the sparks that are given off just won't go out. Traditional method? I don't think this is what affects it, I think it may be the particle size of my C because that would make sense, or the type of C because pine is the best for sparks, maybe if I try some other C it will fix it. They are around 1 cm in diameter and 3/4 centimeter thick. +++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Oh I see what you mean I thought the stars were burning all the way to the ground. Your charcoal is airfloat I assume...if not then that could definately cause longer lastin sparks. By traditional method I meant you did ball mill the KNO3 and C togethor before adding the rest of the stuff.....? +++++++++++++++++++++ al93535: Your charcoal is simply too coarse! Mill it. You need a fine powder. Or mill everything together, the KNO3, charoal, dextrin and sulfur. This will solve your problem. +++++++++++++++++++++ justanotherpyro: I figured that particle size was my problem, but I do have airfloat and its very fine. The problem was that the stars that I made from in batch was used C that had only been in the blender for half a minute . I guess some good came out of it though, for someone who is having this problem. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Draco_Aster: I made 50g of TT and it burned just fine with a beautiful deep orange/red colour. All was good in the land of pyro...UNTIL...I mixed it with gum arabic and made some stars, primed them, and let them dry. But they didnt burn, when I lit one seperately with a blowtorch the priming burst in to flame and the TT com just smouldered and spat out a spark or two. You know what this means? Dont use gum arabic as a binder when making TT and high carbon stars like willow. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ somebody: Use a stargun...Testing stars on the ground doesn't work, expecially with sparks, flitters and glitters and such.Testing in the air makes them look better. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dragonman586: I made some TT stars and lit them on the ground it burned up quick and left a growing orange thing. Then I launched a couple of TT stars out of a star gun, they just shot out as a few sparks from the end. I used good charcoal to make them, no nice tail. Do you think I should try again with briquette charcoal? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Swany: Assuming the orange thing looks like the original star and is glowing carbon residue. When the stars burn do they: 1)have a large flame envalope?2)throw many sparks around, as characteristic of the stars? What type of C are you using, how fine were the ingredients, how were they mixed? What do they look like when fired from the gun, does the orange shell of the burnt star stick togeather? More information is really needed, try to discern what may be wrong. Use the process of elimination, I guess. I am inclined to think that your C isn't the problem. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Star_Roller: I just started a batch of these Tiger Tails the mix before hand burnt. O.K. but I hope they burn better rolled I think they should when they are all dry I'll post pics then burn them to show you guys my stars. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: Yes, these burn a lot better when formed into stars than they do when they are a powder. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dragonman586: The stars didn't have a large flame envelope and when it was a star it didn't make sparks on the ground when burning. My stars were ball milled then pumped. Also I was using well ground pine charcoal. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Star_Roller: I just lit one and didnt burn well it would go on and off so im thinkin there not all the way dry. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ creepinghorseman: Depending on how big your TT stars are and the climate they are in, they can take as much as a few weeks to dry. I don't see them drying completely in a few days (it sounds like that's how long you have had them) even under the best conditions. Have some patience and you will be rewarded with an awesome looking star. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: These kind of stars take a long time to dry, I thought my Chrysanthemum 6's back in the day were duff, but I just left them for a week and tried them again and they worked great. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Duff!!! Hahaha that gave me quite a chuckle Chaz.... British talk Yeah I had made some TT stars and decided they were "duff" so I thre them in my cabinet and forgot them. When I found them a month later they worked just fine! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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