Ball Mill Type / Size / Brand

[TheArchitect23]

1st topic post, so hello all!

ive been reading for a few months now, and learned quite a bit.

 

I have decided i need a new mill.

since ive started on my new hobby i have been using a harbor freight ball mill filled with 3/4 oz round cannonball fishing sinkers ( sprue and ring cut off )

It works well, but is limited to a minimum of 5 hour run and not that much finished product. ( maybe about 8 finished rockets )

 

I have been looking around for a good commercial mill and found these:

 

  36 Lb Mill  [html]

OR

[html] 36 Lb Mill 2 [html]

 

Then i came to the thought, is a smooth round barrel better than a hexagon shaped?

vise versa?

 

I was leaning towards the 1st link as there are 3X 1lb barrels, easy to make a smaller batch. Even a larger batch if i choose with the same measurements times 3 or 2.

Then there is the question about, lets say link 2 mill. 2.75 gal barrel, i would need larger media? and much more of it ( i think ) and of course a large batch every time.

 

 

any advice would be appreciated,

Thanks!

[Killerinc]

cheaper if you buy from the maker

 

http://www.potterymi...m/products.html

 

or free shipping on this one

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/35lb-cap-Rock-Tumbler-Ball-Mill-Case-Debur-Polish-/350490824795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519ae1905b

Edited September 15, 2011 by Killerinc

[allrocketspsl]

for that kinda money make your own mate they use 6' pvc(drainage) with cap and reducing adapter,you can make for 15.00 us dollars then paint it blue

[TheArchitect23]

for that kinda money make your own mate they use 6' pvc(drainage) with cap and reducing adapter,you can make for 15.00 us dollars then paint it blue

 

That was my original idea, but i just dont have the time or the material on hand as of right now.

[TheArchitect23]

cheaper if you buy from the maker

 

http://www.potterymi...m/products.html

 

 

 

Thank You For The Link! I Will Check It Out.

[Mumbles]

According to this website, a 3/4 oz sinker is about .62" in diameter. http://www.terminaltackleco.com/prod_detail_list/113 It is honestly fine for most sized mills, if not a bit large for the smaller one you're currently using. It will be fine for a larger mill. You will of course need more of them to properly fill the mill. Some swear by the round jars, and some by the polygonal mills. The thing to remember with the polygonal mills is that they must run at a lower RPM. The calculators and formulas floating around largely derived from Lloyd Sponnenburgh's manuscript are for round jars. If you try to run a hexagonal jar, you'll probably get little to no cascading effect.

[FrankRizzo]

The thing to remember with the polygonal mills is that they must run at a lower RPM. The calculators and formulas floating around largely derived from Lloyd Sponnenburgh's manuscript are for round jars. If you try to run a hexagonal jar, you'll probably get little to no cascading effect.

 

I used a Lortone QT6 jar for a few years, before my needs outgrew its capacity. I ran mine at the Sponenburgh calculated speed and had no problems. Guys like Gene and Eric over on Passfire have used them for years as well, but swear that they work better at a lower RPM. I don't know what physics principle would explain that.

Edited September 15, 2011 by FrankRizzo

[Mumbles]

I always kind of assumed that too high of speed gave it too high of a break angle. This would at least reduce it's grinding efficiency.

[TheArchitect23]

thank you for all the continued input.

i think i will go with the round barrel, and im glad my media is probably okay.

still torn on the choice of the 2 mills, perhaps the triple barrel as i will be able to choose my amount to mill.

nothing to stop me from just getting a large single barrel if i need right?

[Killerinc]

the triple one you are thinking about getting does not have a sealed motor so i would not recommend getting that one

[oldguy]

thank you for all the continued input.

i think i will go with the round barrel, and im glad my media is probably okay.

still torn on the choice of the 2 mills, perhaps the triple barrel as i will be able to choose my amount to mill.

nothing to stop me from just getting a large single barrel if i need right?

 

 

Back when I decided I needed a larger mill than a #3 harbor freight. I shopped around like you are doing now. Almost all low to mid range priced mills advertised on-line are for tumbling rocks. I contacted several vendors, asking does this mill have a TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motor. NOT ONE DID.

 

I also noticed many reviews revealed some manufactured mills had eventual issues with “belts, others had issues with “rollers” & almost all did not have very powerful electric motors. Plus, most will only fit one size jar, as the design did not permit moving the rollers to make them adjustable in width..

 

I wanted a mill with a beefy TEFC motor. Plus able to run multiples of 8 or 12 inch jars. None out there fit what I wanted. So, I built one to suit. Which took awhile. The cost was under $300. Once done, I could not be happier. Building one yourself gives you a lot of personal satisfaction. Plus, if well designed, built with high quality parts, it will last a lifetime, even with continuous use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Killerinc]

If you build your own ball mill you can also use 2 of the same size Step Pulleys so you can change the speed of your mill by moving the belt

[TheArchitect23]

wow! very nice mill.

:whistle:oh is that my mill in there... hahaha

[oldguy]

BTW, my mill will spin a combined 100 lbs (jars - grinding media & composition) continuously, with ease.

 

I can load an 18 gallon plastic drum with WP charcoal & billiard balls & mill it to fines in no time.

 

Once fine, I go to Zirc M media in a PVC jar & mill it to "air float" in no time.

 

Other advantages of a beefy multi jar mill is milling 2 or 3 comps, all at once at the same time in separate jars.

Edited September 19, 2011 by oldguy

[guntoteninfadel]

Have to agree with OG, may as well build a mill that you can use if your going to spend that kind of money. I watched him make his and then made mine with materials on hand. Like his I can run jars as small as my old HF jar all the way to 12". I can't run multiple jars at once or that big honking drum he turns but as of yet have never had the desire. The difference though going from A HF jar to 8" PVC is unbelievable. I run my mill now maybe once a month for bp where I was running multiple mill runs a day several times a week just for rockets. Save your money and build something. Well worth the effort!

[TheArchitect23]

after some debate, i have decided i will most likely build my mill.

my biggest problem will be spacing everything correctly, and finding pulleys of the correct size.

 

what if i were to buy the ebay mill, and remove the motor, replacing it with a exact clone, but sealed.

sell off the original un-sealed one?

to expensive? granted i do not have a problem with most things i design and build, but i would like to make this out of steel.

anyone else here who welds knows after you finished, nothing is worse than finding out it doesn't all fit properly, and cutting it back up.

i may just have lack of confidence.

[oldguy]

You can purchase 4 good quality continuous service 1 inch pillow block bearing on eBay for about $40, with free shipping.

 

 

EXAMPLE LINK

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-UCP205-16-Quality-Pillow-block-bearing-ucp-205-/130568740298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6680ddca

 

You can usually find 1 inch round steel bar stock locally at a reasonable price. Which any decent shop will sell cut to any lengths you want.

 

Standard size rubber radiator hoses to cover the round stell bars can be found at any decent size auto parts store.

 

You can find about any size pulleys on eBay at reasonable prices.

 

EXAMPLE LINKS

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100s-Vee-Belt-Pulley-2-5-dia-1-2-1-Bore-/380290929071?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588b1b11af

 

You can find an adjustable idler arm at about any wrecking yard for cheap.

 

.

 

You can find brand new ¼, ½ & ¾ HP single phase TEFC motors on eBay from $50 to $150

 

EXAMPLE LINK

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-1-2-HP-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-3600-56C-SINGLE-PHASE-TEFC-/270819326596?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0e16fa84

 

Once you have those things, all you have to do is find or build a platform to mount them on.

 

 

An appropriate belt can be found at any decent sized auto parts store.

 

You can make the rollers adjustable width, simply by drilling holes, so you can move the pillow block bearing un-powered roller over to suit.

 

 

Just takes a PLAN, some shopping & your on your way to constructing a beefy ball mill that will last you the rest of your life, as well as a generation after you.

 

[Mumbles]

I too have been dreaming about ball mills lately. I think I came upon a great idea for adjustable distances. This is both for ball mills, and another tool used to build big canister shells, but that is unimportant. I've long been a fan of using old conveyer rollers as the idle roller in ball mills, such as the following. They're cheap, strong, pre-assembled, and have their own usually fairly decent bearings.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Conveyer-roller-1-9-dia-x-12-3-4-length-7-16-/160371433970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2556e1e1f2

 

The hex shafts would make them easy to move around just by having a wooden or metal guide with notches cut into them for the shaft to sit in. The hex shape would lock them in place, and the weight of the jar or shell would keep them in place. In reality 2-3 notches would cover any sized jar or shell you'd ever want to build or run.

[TheArchitect23]

Thanks for the links. I will check out what all I can find and get back if I have any problems.

[guntoteninfadel]

Was this kinda like you were thinking mumbles?

 

I finally got around to taking some pics. As you can see the thing works from 2" to 12". Everything is sealed up inside the roller, kinda convienient. Mfg says 20k hour lifespan, mine are used, who knows.

Edited September 27, 2011 by guntoteninfadel

[Mumbles]

Thats pretty much exactly what I had in mind.

[guntoteninfadel]

All told I think I got 50.00 in it if you don't count the wood. Do use plywood! I had some hardwood lying around and used it first. The thing would come apart after about 40 minutes. Replaced the hardwood with 1/4 ply(again stuff lying about) and have not had a problem since. I really need to finish the 12" jar. I'm out of charcoal and that would make quite a bit in one batch.

[319]

Check out https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp they have a lot of stuff.

Sam

[skydivemd]

Sam,

 

That link for the Surplus Center is golden! TEFC single phase motors from 1/2 to 1 1/2 hp, pillow block bearings, pulleys, etc... Potentially a great one-stop-shop for most all of your DIY ball mill components.

 

Thanks for sharing,

 

Rick

[VintageRacer]

Lots of ways to do it. All depends on what we have laying around or can buy easily. I lucked into a couple of scooters that worked fine as it turns out. All I had to do is replace the 2 batteries and it works. I just trickle charge the batteries after use. One advantage with this unit is I can take it anywhere and run it remotely in a field if need be, no generator etc, like a club event or similar.

I use the back tire to drive the jar, which is a 6 x 9" pvc pipe and flush ends. No reducers or clamps etc.... just tape on the flush fit lid and mill. The bottom is solvent welded in place.

 

I had 4 of those nice self-aligning pillow blocks from IBT directly, then took them back once I knew what direction I was going with my mill. The first version is using hard casters in lieu of the rollers and bearings. I used these because I had them, but will switch over one of these days to inline skate wheels with replaceable bearings.

 

Yea it's kind of funky but it works good so far. I think you have seen the video. It shows the DC power supply running it but that has been changed to use the 2-12V batts. Remember this was a scooter that has a weight / distance rating for carrying a person, so it does ok with a load. The motor is sealed similar to a wiper motor. Some day I'll come up with a box that will fit the mill and quiet it down some. It's not too heavy to pick up but I might add some casters so I can roll it around.

 

Old AC motors are around if you look or ask. I'd probably go that route and use pulleys for speed control if I ever made another.

 

DanB