mabuse00 Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hi there, I'd like to know if you have any prefered lubricants for your spindles. I still had enormous trouble to get the motors off the tooling during my last tests. Especially the betonite seems to adhere pretty good to the aluminium.I was not even able to twist the motors against the tooling. Vaseline was a failure. Graphite would be my next try, do you have any better ideas?
Thunderr1 Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 How polished is your spindle? Are you just trying to turn it by hand?
dagabu Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I like Jig-a-Loo for spindles, both the graphite and silicone versions work well but I find that a touch of Mothers Mag Polish on the spindle to brighten it up makes a world of difference! -dag
WSM Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I like Jig-a-Loo for spindles, both the graphite and silicone versions work well but I find that a touch of Mothers Mag Polish on the spindle to brighten it up makes a world of difference! -dag The best aluminum spindles I've ever experienced were Nituf coated. They need to be properly prepared first and a few good suggestions were offered above. The Nituf coating is a hard anodized coat with Teflon impregnated into it somehow (if I remember correctly). I've used them and prefer Nituf coating on any aluminum tool I own. I had a person jam a rammer on a Nituf coated spindle once and thought, "Well, that's it. It's ruined!". When I finally got the drift off the spindle and saw the gory ring of aluminum on it, and feared the worst. I used my pocket knife to scrape the aluminum ring on the black spindle and to my surprise and delight discovered it was aluminum smeared on the Nituf skin from the rammer! I was able to clean most of the aluminum off the spindle and continue using it. It's still usable today. I am a Nituf convert . If you ever want to add hard, abrasive grains (titanium, FeTi etc.) to a rocket composition, an aluminum spindle is the only way to go; if it has a Nituf coating. Stainless steel or brass will take a beating. The only other option I can think of would be hardened tool steel, but sparking would be an issue. One could make a hardened steel or brass spindle and have it hard chromed, and that would work without sparking concerns (so long as the chrome layer isn't compromised). The brass won't spark but will last a very long time with a hard chrome plated outer layer. WSM
dagabu Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Pioneer Metal Finishing now has the patent for Nituff and it is called "Black Nituff". I spoke with Jake Richardson last year about an unrelated project and I was told that the coating actually penetrates 2-5 microns and builds up the surface around .0005-.003".LINK Navel Bronze will actually outperform Nituff in all categories except corrosive and acid environments, and also costs about x4 the cost of a Nituff coated piece. -dag
nater Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I had trouble with motors getting stuck on the spindle too. The best solution I found was keeping the spindle clean with a good polish and rubbing some paraffin on it before ramming a motor. 1
dave321 Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I had trouble with motors getting stuck on the spindle too. The best solution I found was keeping the spindle clean with a good polish and rubbing some paraffin on it before ramming a motor. hi, 1% magnesium stearate in the blend may help.this level is routinely used in pharmaceutical tablet s to lubricate the upper and bottom punches, and reduce sticking. dave
NightHawkInLight Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Rubbing a candle on the spindle for a thin wax coating works pretty well for me. I never knew the brand name of Nituff, but it sounds like the same stuff Gerber uses to coat their hatchets. They're the best hatchets you'll ever use, and I'd love rocket tooling coated with the same stuff.
dagabu Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 What? Not a single joke about spindle polish? Really? -dag
allrocketspsl Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) pm me I will tell you what to do so simple yet people dont use it,works for a myriad of things but is a trade secret so if you want it pm me mate! Edited September 6, 2011 by allrocketspsl
ibizon Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 This is what I've used and it seems to be working well. http://www.lowes.com/pd_124699-39963-D00100101_0__?productId=1007929&Ntt=teflon+lubricant&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dteflon%2Blubricant&facetInfo=
dagabu Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 pm me I will tell you what to do so simple yet people dont use it,works for a myriad of things but is a trade secret so if you want it pm me mate! Oh, that sounds so bad!! PM sent!!! -dag
SjeefOne Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I used to get my spindle stuck because I press my motors fairly hard. Now I use vaseline with some graphite mixed in which seems to work okay, however I am using a spindle puller now so it gets off anyway some pics :The Aluminium "tool" on the left, 3/8 threaded rod and a 3/8 nut screwed in the (very stuck) spindle A few turns and it will "crack" looseSpindle is a Nituff coated Wolter 4Lbs btw.You can see the spindle pulled inside the "Tool.Finished (nozzleless) motor Edited September 7, 2011 by SjeefOne
mabuse00 Posted September 8, 2011 Author Posted September 8, 2011 The worst is allways the nozzle section - small areas of betonite keep sticking to collar and spindle... Paraffin does not help. I think I'll combine it with graphite an see what happens.
WonderBoy Posted September 9, 2011 Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) In the past I used to mix some graphite into my bentonite nozzle mix, which seemed to alleviate the issue, somewhat, of nozzle mix sticking to the spindle. Now I just use kitty litter with 3% oil added and I haven't had issues. What size motors are you making? Ramming or pressing? I too have used Jig-a-loo which worked, but now I usually just rub some wax on the spindle before pressing a motor, simply because a candle stick is smaller for transport than the can of lube. Although, all of my spindles are stainless steel, so this may work differently with Al spindles. I don't know that I would recommend vasoline as a spindle lubricant (it degrades latex. ) because I have used vasoline to slow down motors that are over the red line. To do this I coat my spindle in vasoline and stick it back up into the core after pressing the motor, give it a little twist and pull it back out. It slows down the rate at which the core lights and voilà, no more CATO. I have never done it, but from my experience it seems that lubricating your spindle with vasoline may slow down the motor. Edited September 9, 2011 by WonderBoy
drthrust Posted September 9, 2011 Posted September 9, 2011 ive used Vaseline as a spindle lube, purely out of laziness as it was close to hand in my workshop, and when i think about it my rockets where slow off the mark.! i do have a can of ptfe spray lube kicking about supposedly the "slipperiest thing on earth". and there is a graphite spray on the market anybody tried it?
Mumbles Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 I can't speak for rockets but I have used graphite powder and graphite spray for crossettes with good success.
mabuse00 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 Teflon grease may be another solution, just found a tube.I'll do some testing next time. My 1lb tooling has a nasty disadvantage, the is attached with a single screw, which can slip in the base. If you turn the base, you don't allways turn the spindle
dagabu Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Teflon grease may be another solution, just found a tube.I'll do some testing next time. My 1lb tooling has a nasty disadvantage, the is attached with a single screw, which can slip in the base. If you turn the base, you don't allways turn the spindle Run a set screw sideways into the spindle base, that way it cant turn. -dag
allrocketspsl Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Teflon grease may be another solution, just found a tube.I'll do some testing next time. My 1lb tooling has a nasty disadvantage, the is attached with a single screw, which can slip in the base. If you turn the base, you don't allways turn the spindle where did you get that tooling I just happen to know someone who custom makes tooling very reasonable prices and it wont do that! email me if you want his name,or can guess who Im reffering to!pss hes making me a set in a couple of weeks
Col Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Sounds like the setscrew is just pressing against the spindle and relying on friction to stop it from turning. Drilling a small hole where the setscrew meets the spindle should be enough to fix it.
Mumbles Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Does anyone know what the grease part is in teflon grease? It has finely powdered teflon-like particles suspended in a matrix. The type I'm familiar with is for lab work where the matrix is also fluorinated, but it is pretty expensive. Much less so than the type I've seen in hardware stores. I'd be worried that it'd act like vaseline and retard the first stage of burning as drthrust mentioned. Well, you never know until you try. Let us know.
drthrust Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) agreed mumbles i had the same thought about the grease in the ptfe spray , there are "dry" ptfe sprays on the market , Trend trendicote , used on woodworking tools circular saw blades, router bits etc to stop resin build up.they certainly are worth a look i used some many years ago on a rusty hand saw, i completely forgot about it! Edited September 13, 2011 by drthrust
Mumbles Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 It's not cheap, but Sailkote is reportedly a very good product for this. http://www.mclubemarine.com/sailkote/
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