50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I don't from where did the russians find them, but here they are: http://pirotehnika.ruhelp.com/index.php?showtopic=3313
Ralph Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I don't from where did the russians find them, but here they are: http://pirotehnika.r...?showtopic=3313 Nice find, I got all excited when I saw the green strobe formula especially as I read down the list of chemicals but than realised it probably wouldn't be green as advertised
Peret Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Wow, nice find. WTF is "resinox"? Do we know that by a different name?
Ralph Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Wow, nice find. WTF is "resinox"? Do we know that by a different name? Phenolic resin
jimbo Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) here's some of the same http://www.standardf.../2007/tech1.htm they have video's of all their products so you can see some good combinations and types of shells. Edited August 21, 2011 by jimbo
Adrenaline Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Some of these formulas realy are strange. For example "blue pearl". I `d never expect that a formula containing so much MgAl could give a nice blue. It would be interesting to try the green strobe formula. I simply don`t think it would really strobe. Those chinese seem to love CuO. So many formulas with extremly high copper oxide content. "Silver Time rain" for example contains 34g CuO per 97g batch.
50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 If you ask me, I've never liked the colors of the chinese commercial cakes, especially greens and blues.
Pretty green flame Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 http://www.operatorchan.org/t/arch/src/t125790_mother-of-god-super-troopers.jpg This is a gold mine
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) I think new regulations forced Chinese factories to have information sheets for their products. In the past a big disaster happened in a Chinese harbor because unsafe compositions were used. Thats why they can only export 6" shells (officially).I know someone who uses Chinese stars only for star mines because the could might contain chlorate. 50AE, you can not say all blues and greens in chinese cakes are bad. You can buy good color chinese devices, but this will be more expensive. This choice is made by the importer of the fireworks. The chinese have really good magnesium colored stuff, but magnesium and the process is more expensive.Interesting topic, I have only seen one sheet of a silver 4" shell, the breakcharge kind of surprised me (if I remember correctly). After looking at it a bit closer, I think they are kind of cheating, some comps are incorrect I think. The companies have their secrets, which is logical. Edited August 21, 2011 by FREAKYDUTCHMEN
allrocketspsl Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 chinese make colors to go away quickly,nothing seems to burn very long,safety reasons I guess,cosidering they ship and product ends up everywhere in the world
50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Freaky, you are maybe right. We are a country where we import the worst products from the world. If in Western Europe some chinese devices are not accepted because of chlorate presence, they will be accepted by us.The same goes for the quality of the effects of most of fireworks we have here. All of them of chinese, of course. By the way about the green strobe, I have personally noticed that the presence of sulfur in a barium nitrate/MgAl comp make the color slightly greenish. Maybe BaS is a green emitter, but lets let Mumbles explain more. Edited August 21, 2011 by 50AE
Adrenaline Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I don`t think that BaS is the green emitter in the green strobe formula because under these conditions it will be oxidized to BaSO4 . Sulfates however are good colour-emitters. In "the old times" almost all compositions had a high sulfur content. Back then they had no chlorine donors like PVC, Parlon,.... So they were forced to use sulfur, even in the dangerous sulfur-chlorate mixtures.
ExplosiveCoek Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) To be honest I don't think that any of those comps are worth your time. Some of them have false info, like mentioned before 20% MgAl in blue is never gonna happen. Some comps don't even have a binder in them :/. Edited August 21, 2011 by ExplosiveCoek
50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 I don`t think that BaS is the green emitter in the green strobe formula because under these conditions it will be oxidized to BaSO4 . Sulfates however are good colour-emitters. In "the old times" almost all compositions had a high sulfur content. Back then they had no chlorine donors like PVC, Parlon,.... So they were forced to use sulfur, even in the dangerous sulfur-chlorate mixtures. No way BaS will be completely oxidized to BaSO4, there's not enough oxygen in the mix for this. It might, partially, with the help of atmospheric oxygen
californiapyro Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 somebody wanna try it and see if it works?
oldguy Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Wow, nice find. WTF is "resinox"? Do we know that by a different name? I have been chasing leads to this type of Chinese comps containing a phenolic resin binder a long time.LOL, then they pop up here, like mana from heaven.GREAT FINDS Edited August 21, 2011 by oldguy
Ralph Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I don`t think that BaS is the green emitter in the green strobe formula because under these conditions it will be oxidized to BaSO4 . Sulfates however are good colour-emitters. In "the old times" almost all compositions had a high sulfur content. Back then they had no chlorine donors like PVC, Parlon,.... So they were forced to use sulfur, even in the dangerous sulfur-chlorate mixtures. with the addition of sulfur chlorate (and perchlorate) yields more chlorine than it normally would this is why it was added to the chlorate compositions improving flame colour if you were to add the sulfur to a nitrate oxidised comp it would not improve the colour
allrocketspsl Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Im curious,I just emailed one of the masters in pyrotechniques to see his thoughts on this link,mis direction maybe?Let me show my ignorance,what is Ethylene chloride!
50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 Im curious,I just emailed one of the masters in pyrotechniques to see his thoughts on this link,mis direction maybe?Let me show my ignorance,what is Ethylene chloride! By ethylene chloride they mean PVC, C2H3Cl
allrocketspsl Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 By ethylene chloride they mean PVC, C2H3Cl oh ok i thought pvc was polyvinyl choride or cpvc chlorinated polvinyl choride thanks
Xtreme Pyro Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Wow nice find 50, I will have to look at it more when I get time. Thanks for the share!
drthrust Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 a great find indeed, 50 AE, ill repost the link on the ukps forums if thats ok
50AE Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 Of course it's ok, share it the most you can. It's not totally my find.
Mumbles Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I do agree that the green strobe from the Russian website, as well as a few others, are probably BS. I've heard some people in the know with access to some of these sheets in the importing and research business mention that the information sheets do sometimes contain intentionally misleading or false information. "Accidental" entry errors, omissions of chemicals all together, etc. Sometimes it is more obvious than others. If all formulas but one all add to 100%, it is sometimes a give away. The green strobe from Standard looks a bit more like ones that I have seen that really work. Typically they are barium nitrate, sulfur, MgAl, as well as additional additives. I assume the effect works something like a glitter as postulated by Oglesby and to some part Shimizu. The nitrate (either potassium or barium) reacts with the sulfur to form a sulfide melt which coats the metal particles. At some point later this will react explosively with a bright flash with the metal. In a glitter these droplets are blow off, in a strobe they stay together. That is a very simplified version of what I believe is happening. I was working with these mixes a little bit before my accident. It's definitely possible. Ethylene chloride is a different, and a bit less archaic, name for vinyl chloride. I would just take the formulas given earlier with a grain of salt. Some may be good, some may be bad. At least none that I saw looked particularly dangerous at least. I really didn't see anything too new or ground breaking. In cakes and stuff, the chinese are definitely capable of making very nice colors. They're typically better than the ones I usually see in the larger items. Even some of the proximate pyro manufacturers have better color compositions for the items that are fired closer than the bigger stuff fired farther away.
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