nater Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 When I think of firework rockets, the picture in my head is a stick rocket with a tapered nosecone. I understand there was an article in the PGI bulletin a few years ago describing the very ones I have in mind, but I don't have those articles and I believe those issues are sold out. Wolter made some formers and templates, but is currently sold out in the sizes I am interested in. The templates were easy enough to come up with. I found a shareware cone pattern generator and made up some templates for 4 oz and 1 lb rocket headers. Just using printer paper to roll up, it is not stiff enough and difficult to convince to stay in shape. I think heavier kraft or manilla folders would be ideal, it might be even easier when the header is filled with burst and stars. A former may not be necessary, but if I look through the aisles at Hobby Lobby, I think I can find something appropriate. Has anyone here made these types of headers? Since there is almost no confinement, I'm just going to put a little ffg and some fish fuse or small stars to pop out. Is anyone interested in a PDF copy of the templates?
dan999ification Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 dr thrust is your man, he's on here he made some pretty nice formers on a lathe just like this shape.this header reminds me of the old british standard rockets from way back when. dan.
drthrust Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) a formers not necessary, but it does help , heres a few links to actual standard rockets, and more to give you a better perspective of the tapering body.performance wise id say they are the worst header !, compared to ball and canister variants as you can't really spike, or paste them to get a good burst, there more of a "pop open" affair dumping out there contents this star spread is called a "horsetail" . charcoal and glitter stars lend them selfs very kindly to these headers. http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4254/cimg0817.jpg heres the said former knocked up in a free "hand styley" on my trusty 30's ml4, the other item is a brass nozzle-less spindle Edited July 29, 2011 by drthrust
dan999ification Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 yup, thats the one.the design [i think] is partly related to the upcoming regulations at the time.the horsetail or sky mine effect is nice and subtle as im sure many would agree after witnessing bombardments of shells is a refreshing change.especially with a 25ft string of flares on a parachute.these headers are not the most [air]odynamic but the good ole brits had em up to 1200ft plus .i have plenty of links of contents,arrangement and weights of components of the old style and will update. dan.
TigerTail Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) Someone on The Rocketry Forum talked about using styrofoam sheets, stacked on top of each other and stuck together, and run on a drilling machine or any low power motor in place of a real lathe to form the ogive shape. It is made slightly smaller than the desired size and a few layers of paper are pasted over it just like papier maché. The paper is finally sanded smooth after drying. It leads to a very sturdy nose cone. Maybe you could make a poor man's former if you make it hard enough. I once made a nose cone this way for an 8 mm bottle rocket, using a 3 V DC motor from an old toy EDIT : I forgot to add the lacquer coat. Edited July 30, 2011 by TigerTail
nater Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 Tigertail - That method sounds similar in spirit to James Yawn's way of making paper nosecones rolled from index cards and sanded smooth. Dan & Dr.Thrust - Thanks for the links. I know these headers are not going to give an ideal round break, but I like the horsetail effect on rockets and I like the way they look.
drthrust Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) yes there my favorite as well and i have spent many hours looking in gift shops trying to find wraping paper similar to standard's simple design to make the pefect looking rocket (no luck yet!) any ideas chaps? Edited July 30, 2011 by drthrust
dan999ification Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) cant seem to get a link up but the site is called maurice and steves virtual firework gallery, www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/gallery3/theres about seven in all from rockets to mines to old daytime shells to american firecrackers. enjoy. dan. edit, look at that you type the web address and it links it for ya .old dogs learning new tricks Edited August 11, 2011 by dan999ification
guntoteninfadel Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 Would not an old school water fountain disposable cup not work? I understand it would need reinforcement but I believe it would be a very nice shape.
nater Posted August 11, 2011 Author Posted August 11, 2011 I thought about those cones for water coolers, but the most likely places that would have them were closed in the middle of the night when I got the idea to try this shape of header out.
guntoteninfadel Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 At least I'm not the only one up in the middle of the night, lol
nater Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Nope, my job keeps me up at all hours of the day. Like firefighters, we work 24 hours at a time and try to sleep and eat when we can throughout the day. So when we are up late and I am riding back from a hospital I tend daze off and if I get what I think is a good idea, I write it down. Edit: Here's my first live header: Header is 17.6 g. Break is BP, filled in the empty space of the motor and a thin layer along the bottom of the cone. Inside are bits of falling leaves fuse. Motor is nozzless 75-15-10 BP on 1/2" U/H tooling. The rocket should be flown at Tri-State in September unless I can make it to the HPA shoot at the end of this month. Edited August 14, 2011 by nater
guntoteninfadel Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Well it looks like it should work. Let us know how it works. I'm still thinking of using a can header and put the lightest available nose cone on for purely aerodynamic reasons. The can should still break properly. We will see.
dagabu Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Nope, my job keeps me up at all hours of the day. Like firefighters, we work 24 hours at a time and try to sleep and eat when we can throughout the day. So when we are up late and I am riding back from a hospital I tend daze off and if I get what I think is a good idea, I write it down. Edit: Here's my first live header: Header is 17.6 g. Break is BP, filled in the empty space of the motor and a thin layer along the bottom of the cone. Inside are bits of falling leaves fuse. Motor is nozzless 75-15-10 BP on 1/2" U/H tooling. The rocket should be flown at Tri-State in September unless I can make it to the HPA shoot at the end of this month. I soaked my nose cone I got from Kurt Medlin and will share the template with you all so that you can make these type of nose cones yourself. It will take a while to get to it so don't expect it till winter but I will make sure its printable along with directions to how to make the formers easily with simple shop tools. You will need heavy kraft paper, 90# or better, wheat paste and a former. -dag
nater Posted August 17, 2011 Author Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks in advance Dag. I made up templates to roll the cones, but haven't made a former yet. The one I built was made from a manilla folder and taped with fiber strapping tape. I don't expect much, but I hope it flys. I am also building a few 1.5" cylinder shells and 3" ball shells to fly at Tri State. I also have shoots 3 of the next 4 weekends before the meet, so I will be busy getting everything done in time.
guntoteninfadel Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 They sell open cell foam cones at hobby type stores(they use them for flower arranging). We turn them down with hand held drill and sandpaper for water rockets. There is a real difference in cone vs no cone with the water rocket, I am hoping for similiar results with the bp rockets.
dagabu Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 They sell open cell foam cones at hobby type stores(they use them for flower arranging). We turn them down with hand held drill and sandpaper for water rockets. There is a real difference in cone vs no cone with the water rocket, I am hoping for similiar results with the bp rockets. Thanks Gun! What a great idea! I will go get a few tonight and will see if I cant make a former the quick and easy way. -dag
dagabu Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) double post Edited August 17, 2011 by dagabu
dagabu Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 another symptom of old age Why I oughta... Um, oughta do what? I forget, I gotta pee, nevernind, gotta change my socks... -dag
allrocketspsl Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 just remeber when your old and worn out to, never trust a FART!
guntoteninfadel Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) I bet these not only would be good for horse tail but you could do a huge dump of flying fish fuse! Edited August 21, 2011 by guntoteninfadel
WSM Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I bet these not only would be good for horse tail but you could do a huge dump of flying fish fuse! If you roll up rosin paper and make it thick, hard and brittle; it ought to break really easy and distribute the contents well . I've got the Wolter tools, I just need the time and motivation! WSM
dagabu Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) Here are my traditional style nose cones that I have been working on. Circle cutters Nose cone former Body former Finished nose cone Finished body cone Finished cones Wrapped Motors Here is a video of my first traditional nosed rocket mounted on a 3# nozzleless 70:20:10 fueled motor. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVcOWq9QF9g -dag Edited September 3, 2011 by dagabu
allrocketspsl Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Here is a video of my first traditional nosed rocket mounted on a 3# nozzleless 70:20:10 fueled motor. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVcOWq9QF9g -dag nice but it wasnt 3 seconds,lol great rocket though
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