Blackthumb Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Thought I saw a posting in here re: 1/4 inchers...quite simple to make....anyone know where or have good info? Need to pound a bunch out for grandson...
dagabu Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Hmmmmm, WSM, know anything about 1/4" Super Bottle Rockets? I know that the kids and I make a crap load of them just about every weekend. I buy THESE from Kevin and pick them up at PGI (no shipping) and pound end burners with a tiny pinch of F in the empty end of the tube and seal it up with a tiny paper disk. They take about 1 minute each to make and you can use the thin skewers (12") from the dollar store for sticks. I have the super bottle rocket tooling as well but those buggers need the good NEPT tubes, they are freaking FAST!!! PM, me, I can whip up a set for you in about 30 minutes for end burners, PM WSM about the Super Bottle Rockets. -dag
DeepOvertone Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Back in the day, when cannonfuse.com came out with their 1/4" tubes, I sent some off to wolter to have him make me up a set of rocket tools for those tubes. It was definitely the first set he had made for tubes that size. They are indeed quick and easy to make and as Dagabu said a little bit of F in the tube topped off with hot glue makes a pretty cool little rocket. Definitely better than the penny rockets you can buy. But overall, a little underwhelming once you are used to much larger motors. But for your grandson they probably will be quite exciting. You can get tooling for 1/4" tubes from Wolterpyrotools.com, pyrodirect.com, pyrocreations.com and as dagabu said... I'm sure he can whip you up some tools for a better price than all of those websites. Although I do like to fund their business from time to time just to keep them around. I have purchased many tools from wolterpyrotools and I'm very fond of their quality however their customer service is lacking. Good luck!
dagabu Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Back in the day, when cannonfuse.com came out with their 1/4" tubes, I sent some off to wolter to have him make me up a set of rocket tools for those tubes. It was definitely the first set he had made for tubes that size. They are indeed quick and easy to make and as Dagabu said a little bit of F in the tube topped off with hot glue makes a pretty cool little rocket. Definitely better than the penny rockets you can buy. But overall, a little underwhelming once you are used to much larger motors. But for your grandson they probably will be quite exciting. You can get tooling for 1/4" tubes from Wolterpyrotools.com, pyrodirect.com, pyrocreations.com and as dagabu said... I'm sure he can whip you up some tools for a better price than all of those websites. Although I do like to fund their business from time to time just to keep them around. I have purchased many tools from wolterpyrotools and I'm very fond of their quality however their customer service is lacking. Good luck! PLEASE support Ben, Kevin and Rich! (You forgot Firesmithtools.com) I only make tooling because there are those that cannot afford tooling, every penny goes to send our family to PGI. -dag
DeepOvertone Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I didn't forget. I dont see where he has them listed on his site. However, he does offer custom tooling so I guess I should have mentioned him in this case.
Mumbles Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Those spiral wound paper tubes are remarkably strong. Well, I got mine from another source (the now defunct pyrotube.com). The ones I got subsequently from other places were a little less resilient. However a reinforcing sleeve makes them work just fine. I found that 3/8" ID steel tubing works great to reinforce them for pressing rockets and spolettes. I couldn't find an appropriate plastic tubing, which I would have prefered. After cutting them, I gave the interior a little sanding with a conical grinding bit to remove burrs, and they worked very well. I've been told that some of the tubing has a noticible seam on the inside, but mine didn't seem to have much of anything in there. The finished tubes pressed out with hand pressure.
DeepOvertone Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Mumbles, I bought some from cannonfuse.com and they are very strong, very thick walled. I then purchased some from pyrocreations and they werent nearly as strong or thick. I'd be willing to be you would like the ones from cannonfuse.com 1
drthrust Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 how does "super" bottle rocket tooling differ from bog standard bottle rocket tooling?
dagabu Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) "Some good figures for the SBR were recovered. Assuming I can ignore the impulse response of the system and I correctly interpolated the scale readings *and* my trapezoidal integrator hack I wrote in AWK works correctly then the motor would be classed as a 1/2A2-2.5. Its total impulse is 823 mNs and has an "average" thrust of 2 N. It end-burnt its delay section for 2.5 seconds. I think that is quite reasonable performance for a 1/4" motor using fairly weak propellant."-Alan Yates- The tooling has a deep core (spindle hole) and puts out an incredible amount of thrust for such a tiny motor. My oldest son pressed on last winter and jokingly but a festival ball shell on top of it for a joke. I shrugged and said "why not?" It pushed (not shot, it wasn't that fast) the shell to just under 100' and the shell was at the perfect height for display. Now days, we just make a dozen at a time, fuse them with a single strand of black match (J-hook) and put them in a 3" mortar with an e-match inside a baggy with 1 teaspoon of 7FA. The BP burns and lights all the rockets almost instantly and with a pinch of vitamin F in the open part of the tube, it puts all the silly Black Cats to shame! You can do strobe (haven't gotten them to work like the big boys though) and colored tailed rockets as well, the red is very pretty. -dag Edited July 21, 2011 by dagabu
Mumbles Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Clearly it's super The tooling developed for them can accommodate nearly every type of fuel. Strobe, whistle, BP, etc. I kind of think of it as baby universal tooling.
r1dermon Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 we started a municipal show this year with some small bottle rockets. people ate them up (whistle with a nice tail to a small report). the person who made them said they took about 10 minutes total. lol. i'd be interested in some tooling to turn out some of these little spankers. i wonder if anyone has used pressed and/or candied KNO3/sorbitol fuel for these things?
dagabu Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I sent an email to the guy that made the SBR tooling and a quick look only shows them advertized in the back of the PGI bulletin. I would rather let the guy that came up with these have first dibs and if he begs off, I will offer them for sale. -dag
stckmndn Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Does anyone have a picture of this "super" tooling?
Mumbles Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 It looks very similar to core burning tooling or universal tooling. The specs and applications are in back copies of the PGI bulletin if you are interested in more information.
WSM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Does anyone have a picture of this "super" tooling? PGI bulletin March 2005 p29.pdf The above is a copy of a page from the PGI Bulletin with a photo of the SBR Tools. WSM
WSM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Okay. Here's the deal: I've been given permission by the maker of the SBR (Super Bottle Rocket) tool sets to make APC members living in the US this offer: 1 SBR tool set plus 100 NEPT 0.25" ID x 2.5" Long tubes for $100 delivered. The seller prefers PayPal but will accept a check or money order also. Basically, this offer is 2005 prices with free shipping. The offer is good till the end of July. Delivery will be by the end of August (hopefully sooner), because he's getting ready for PGI in Fargo. To take advantage of this offer, you have to mention APC in the request. Send requests and make check out to : Steve Majdali2359 W 249th StLomita, CA 90717 Or send funds as a "gift" by PayPal to account: smajdali@gmail.com Don't forget to include your mailing address and a way he can contact you. If you get one of these sets, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine ! WSM
nater Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Sounds like a good deal. I was planning on contacting him this fall for a set after I get other tools I want more first.
WSM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Awfully nice guy to be doing such a thing. Yeah, he's okay. I've known him for a long time. Personally, I think he lives vicariously though others (he makes tools since he can't make rockets except a couple times a year) plus he's even busier now that he's an officer in the local rocket club. Steve made most of my rocket tools and I'm happy with them . He does nice work but he's so busy it takes a while to get them (which seems to be a common theme in the pyro tool business ). WSM
dagabu Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Yeah, he's okay. I've known him for a long time. Personally, I think he lives vicariously though others (he makes tools since he can't make rockets except a couple times a year) plus he's even busier now that he's an officer in the local rocket club. Steve made most of my rocket tools and I'm happy with them . He does nice work but he's so busy it takes a while to get them (which seems to be a common theme in the pyro tool business ). WSM I think I met the guy last year at PGI, he was hanging around another guy at Subway and they both smelled suspiciously like black powder... -dag
WSM Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I think I met the guy last year at PGI, he was hanging around another guy at Subway and they both smelled suspiciously like black powder... -dag Somebody at PGI smelled of black powder? Imagine that !!! WSM
Juiceh Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) I have purchased many tools from wolterpyrotools and I'm very fond of their quality however their customer service is lacking.I have to disagree here. I've bought quite a few things from Wolter Pyro in the last year and their customer service has been spot on for me! Every email I send them is answered promptly, I've never had to wait longer than 24 hours for a response. Recently I had them convert 4 spindles(BP, UT, Whistle, Strobe) to removable type with spindle puller. I received all my spindles back the same week I sent them! Wolter gets an A+ from me! More on topic, the SBR set in this offer comes with everything shown in the PDF posted including the powder scoop, correct? Edited July 29, 2011 by Juiceh
WSM Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I have to disagree here. I've bought quite a few things from Wolter Pyro in the last year and their customer service has been spot on for me! Every email I send them is answered promptly, I've never had to wait longer than 24 hours for a response. Recently I had them convert 4 spindles(BP, UT, Whistle, Strobe) to removable type with spindle puller. I received all my spindles back the same week I sent them! Wolter gets an A+ from me! More on topic, the SBR set in this offer comes with everything shown in the PDF posted including the powder scoop, correct? Hi Juiceh, Yes. The spindle is stainless steel, the rammers are brass and marked so you know when to change them. It comes with a sleeve so you can use a small press to get higher pressures but be careful not to over do it. I messed up a sleeve and had to get another one. I use a half ton arbor press and even then I go easy on it. I did the calculations once and figured it can get up to 10,000 pounds of force on a 1/4" rammer !!! Oh yeah, it comes with a brass scoop, too. You've got to love a pyro effect that you can carry the comp around in a film can, and make several of them from it! WSM Edited July 31, 2011 by WSM
WSM Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 I have always been treated fairly by Rich Wolter. He is a true gentleman and delivers good products, and stands behind his work. I have collected a lot of his tools over the years and am happy with them. WSM
WSM Posted July 31, 2011 Posted July 31, 2011 Okay. Here's the deal: I've been given permission by the maker of the SBR (Super Bottle Rocket) tool sets to make APC members living in the US this offer: 1 SBR tool set plus 100 NEPT 0.25" ID x 2.5" Long tubes for $100 delivered. The seller prefers PayPal but will accept a check or money order also. Basically, this offer is 2005 prices with free shipping. The offer is good till the end of July. Delivery will be by the end of August (hopefully sooner), because he's getting ready for PGI in Fargo. To take advantage of this offer, you have to mention APC in the request.WSM Hi All, Time is running out on this offer. If you are sitting on the fence, THIS is the time to act (Midnight tonight is it; then it's over). Thank you. WSM
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