Best Newbie Project BP-End

[Mothman]

My pyro experience only goes as far as taking fireworks apart and putting the Bp in a new container to blow it up. I would like to get more into the art of it starting with Bp. I do not have a ball mill but I have KNO3 and sulfur. What type of wood should I use for the charcoal that would be good for a basic firework? Thanks

[dagabu]

Take a look at your other thread first but for BP, you will need a ball mill and media. Lead balls seem to be the best place to start but you will want to move on to better media soon. Harbor Freight has a sale on their Rock Tumblers, use "tool20" for another 20% off the purchase price. If you ball mill it, you can use Cowboy Lump Charcoal for the grill from a local box store or if you make it, I would start with white pine.

 

-dag

[layedbackkustomz]

Well im glad to see you want to get away from taking apart and making kewls. so with that said there are many different charcoals that can be used. fast bp can be made with many types of charcoal and depending on your region and whats avalible to you. paulowia,black willow,balsa and white pine can all make fast hot bp.now for a bp for making comps.such as tiger tail yellow pine is prefered because of the sap in the wood make briliant orange sparks.dan cregan has a great write up with charcoals and timings on his website google (dan cregan fireworks) and you will find it it is also a great source with everything you need to know to get started.i hope you find the love that many of us have found making art for the nights sky.and remember theres a wealth of info in this forum and the chat is a great place to ask questions.-LBK-

[dagabu]

LBK, Dans site and Skylighter are both linked in his other thread. I agree that there are lots of good woods out there but a quick fix can be had for just a few bucks.

 

-dag

[layedbackkustomz]

yeah i use white pine myself its cheap and easy to get.

[busspuppy]

What are the differences between the uses of pine and balsa for charcoal? I have been doing research for 3 weeks, and finally ordered the chemicals to start making fireworks. I have never been an impulse buyer and I wanted to make sure I knew what chemicals are "safe" so I don't get hurt. It is my understanding that both pine and balsa work very well for charcoal, is this correct? Also from what I read balsa does not work for spark effects is this correct? Balsa is very easy and fairly cheap for me to get as for pine I will have to look into it a little more, as I don’t know exactly where to get it. I am sure I could find pine if I needed it though. Thanks for the help.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2011 by busspuppy

[layedbackkustomz]

busspuppy, if you live in the United States you can find both types pine you will need at a local hardware store. the yellow pine most people use for the spark quailitys will be just the regular 2x4's for framing they will have a orangish color to them, the white pine you would use for lift will be found in the form of stripping or 1x1's they will have alot of tiny knots in the wood thats the best way i can describe it. both types are very cheap at a hardware store and should be alot cheaper then buying balsa. now if you can get balsa for cheap you might as well try it.but where im at balsa is very expensive so i opt to use whit pine for my lift.balsa will make a hotter bp then white pine by what i have read i havent ever used balsa so i cant give you any real life data. i hope this has helped.

[busspuppy]

busspuppy, if you live in the United States you can find both types pine you will need at a local hardware store. the yellow pine most people use for the spark quailitys will be just the regular 2x4's for framing they will have a orangish color to them, the white pine you would use for lift will be found in the form of stripping or 1x1's they will have alot of tiny knots in the wood thats the best way i can describe it. both types are very cheap at a hardware store and should be alot cheaper then buying balsa. now if you can get balsa for cheap you might as well try it.but where im at balsa is very expensive so i opt to use whit pine for my lift.balsa will make a hotter bp then white pine by what i have read i havent ever used balsa so i cant give you any real life data. i hope this has helped.

 

 

Hey thanks for your help. I do live in the US. I think my local hardware store may have some pine, I will go check it out tomorrow. I have some left over balsa from building model planes, so when I get my chems i will make a batch of both, and will let you know. Thank you for taking the time to help fellow pyro hobbyists.

 

Eric

[dagabu]

Up in the great white north, SYP is hard to find and our 2x4s are white pine or spruce. Each stick will have a stamp or tag telling you what it is. I have a big old willow that I will be cooking this winter, the charcoal should be fast.

 

-dag

[Mumbles]

I was told that we can still often find yellow pine in the form of larger boards, such as 2x10 and 2x12, where the strength is necessary for support applications in building.

[Algenco]

yellow pine is spec'd for trusses

[busspuppy]

I know I could pick up pine around here, but I think I would have to get big boards of it. I will do that when I run out of the other wood I already have. Thanks for your help guys. I might go check out what the hardware is selling later tonight, because I need to go pick something up tonight to finish my ball mill. I will be using lead media meant for ball milling but until I recieve it do you guys think pennys or nickels will be alright? It would only be for a batch or 2 of bp until I recieve my lead media. I have a bunch of wood in my shed (2x4's) but not sure what kind of wood. II will check it out, maybe there will be some pine in there. Now willow on the other hand is very hard to find around here (or at least I don't know where to get it). My neighbor has a willow tree but I dont think they would be to happy if I cut it down.

 

Eric

[dagabu]

I know I could pick up pine around here, but I think I would have to get big boards of it. I will do that when I run out of the other wood I already have. Thanks for your help guys. I might go check out what the hardware is selling later tonight, because I need to go pick something up tonight to finish my ball mill. I will be using lead media meant for ball milling but until I recieve it do you guys think pennys or nickels will be alright? It would only be for a batch or 2 of bp until I recieve my lead media. I have a bunch of wood in my shed (2x4's) but not sure what kind of wood. II will check it out, maybe there will be some pine in there. Now willow on the other hand is very hard to find around here (or at least I don't know where to get it). My neighbor has a willow tree but I dont think they would be to happy if I cut it down.

 

Eric

 

I would wait until I got my lead, coins dont work*.

 

-dag

[nater]

I just made a batch of BP for nozzless rocket fuel using balsa. I found it rather difficult to work with. I granulated it with mineral oil/laquer thinner, but it was still more difficult to consolidate into a good grain.

[dagabu]

It has a LOT of loft and is hard to get to press nicely isn't it? I gave up on all the "super charcoals" since they seem to be too airy and hard to use as rocket fuel. Hard wood works great with 1% mineral oil (1:2 mineral oil to Coleman camping gas) in it.

 

-dag

[nater]

Yes, too much loft to press nicely. I think I got the grain consolidated enough, we'll see soon. I made an 8oz batch to try out, hoping to use a faster burning coal instead of milling. I will go back to using yellow pine or hardwood AF for my next batch.

[dbryceman]

Using a pair of Harbor Freight 2-Barrel Tumblers with alumina cylinders for media (lead balls are way too heavy for those poor rock tumblers) I have been producing BP slightly better than commercial quality for some time. I'm still not sure how that is possible, really, because I don't do anything special. I recommend that you use the lowest acid sulfur you can purchase at a reasonable price, and commercial charcoal initially. I have had wonderful results with both lab grade potassium nitrate and stump remover. I have read people recommending all kinds of stuff that to me, being relatively new to actually making pyrotechnic compositions, seems extremely labor intensive and time consuming if one wishes to have a fireworks show at some point. I have concluded that I either have awesome luck or there is really no need to push the limits of what some black powder will do. And in spite of all the negativity about small ball mills and especially Harbor Freight rock tumblers, I have had nothing but excellent results.

 

The "Ball MIll": Harbor Freight, 2 barrels, 6lb total capacity. Obviously, lead will take you way over the weight limit if you use the appropriate amount of media - 1/2 the volume of the barrel. After much research, I chose to use 1/2" alumina cylinders. If that alarms someone, I apologize, but I have not been able to make it spark and I don't know of anyone who has done so under any circumstances that might occur in a ball mill with neoprene barrels. I have used alumina for years in laboratories and I personally prefer it for the ball mill. It keeps me under weight and does not destroy my barrels, and best of all, no lead! It takes about 170 1/2" alumina cylinders to fill 1/2 the volume of one barrel and that is some expensive media. I can mill about 120g of BP in the barrel, with the finished composition filling about 1/4 the volume of the barrel. I do run each barrel for 12 hours. I could probably go with less time, but 12 hours works very well for my schedule and I get a very nice product. I granulate the BP with alcohol and red gum, and I get great results with lift powder. I use dextrin instead of red gum to apply the same powder to rice hulls for burst, using an 8:1 ratio by weight. I have not yet found any need to boost my burst powder, or use something like benzolift. I really don't have any use for flash powder right now, but I'll check that out again when I start making crossettes. You will hear about the ball mill belts on these machines breaking a lot. The best replacement belt I can find is a vacuum cleaner belt sold at Walmart. For about $2, you can buy 2 of the 12"L x 1"W belts in a bag. I use an anvil cutter to slice a 1/8" wide belt off of the 1" belt so it will fit the pulleys on the mill. If the belt is too wide it will grind into the plastic pulleys. So far I have not had to replace one of these cheapo-belts and I have run about 96 hours on the belt I am using. Be sure to follow safety recommendations for ball mills with BP.

 

The best newbie advice I have about making BP is, dry your potassium nitrate, especially if it is stump remover, or your BP may ball up in the mill before it finishes milling. I have found that any time I have a moisture issue with my BP during milling, I can dry whatever container of potassium nitrate I have been using, and it will perform without moisture issues until I have used it all if I keep it well sealed in a dry place. I have not had any moisture issues with potassium nitrate from chemical vendors. Don't freak out over charcoal. I buy commerical hardwood charcoal for pyrotechnics. There is no telling what wood is in there, but it works just fine. I am not interested in breaking down charcoal sold for grills, really. I may try making some specialized charcoals later just to see what all the fuss is about. I have an apartment in Peru, and it may be interesting to see what kinds of wood scraps I can find from the rain forest. (No, I am not the lumberjack that is cutting down the Amazon. I just live there sometimes.)

 

If you are using the Harbor Freight tumbler, try 12 hours and back off from there. At least with 12 hours, you know you can get a good BP, and test from there to zero in on your own parameters for milling.

 

Good Luck! Be Safe! Read a LOT!

[busspuppy]

Thanks Dag. I got my lead balls yesterday, so I don't have to use pennys. It doesn't fill the jar as much as I had hoped for, but I will just have to let it run longer so it will hopefully compinsate for the amount of media. I ordered some ball bearings, so I am still waiting for thoses. As soon as I get them though I will make some BP.

 

I just made a batch of BP for nozzless rocket fuel using balsa. I found it rather difficult to work with. I granulated it with mineral oil/laquer thinner, but it was still more difficult to consolidate into a good grain.

 

Thanks for the update on balsa charcoal Nater. I think I will just go ahead and use pine then. Once you got the BP made how did it perform though?

 

Eric

[dagabu]

Thanks Dag. I got my lead balls yesterday, so I don't have to use pennys. It doesn't fill the jar as much as I had hoped for, but I will just have to let it run longer so it will hopefully compinsate for the amount of media. I ordered some ball bearings, so I am still waiting for thoses. As soon as I get them though I will make some BP.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update on balsa charcoal Nater. I think I will just go ahead and use pine then. Once you got the BP made how did it perform though?

 

Eric

 

Fill the jar no more then 1/2 way and then add only as much comp that covers the media (after shaking it down) plus 1/2". It will take your mill about 4-6 hours to mill the BP that way. Check the mill often for clumping, you will know what clumping is as soon as it happens, trust me.

 

-dag