Solid Rocket Booster

[Kenny]

Hey,

So I've been interested in rockets since I was little so I wanted to do a "good bye" Rocket to NASA's last launch of the space shuttle.The rocket's fuel is going to be based on NASA's Solid Rocket Boosters fuel.

The formula is:

Aluminum powder...................................16%

Ammonium perchlorate..............................69.9%

Fe2O3 catalyst....................................0.07%

Rubber based binder of polybutadiëne acrylic acidacrylonitrile.....12.04%

Epoxy curing agent................................1.96%

So a # of ?s to ask.

1.Where can I get or how do I make Ammonium perchlorate since I know its not easy to get?

2.Where do I get polybutadiëne acrylic acidacrylonitrile?An equivalent binder is fine.

3.What are the chances of it exploding?

4.Please post ANY formulas equivalent or BETTER than the SRBs. HMX or RDX or even nitroglycerin is fine.

Also if anyone knows how to make c-4 for the separation of stages the formula would be nice.

[Kenny]

Also any liquid rockets would be cool and the needed pumps and turbines.I've never made a liquid engine so please explain in detail.I might make a mini v-2 rocket. Edited July 11, 2011 by Kenny

[dagabu]

Hey,

So I've been interested in rockets since I was little so I wanted to do a "good bye" Rocket to NASA's last launch of the space shuttle.The rocket's fuel is going to be based on NASA's Solid Rocket Boosters fuel.

The formula is:

Aluminum powder...................................16%

Ammonium perchlorate..............................69.9%

Fe2O3 catalyst....................................0.07%

Rubber based binder of polybutadiëne acrylic acidacrylonitrile.....12.04%

Epoxy curing agent................................1.96%

So a # of ?s to ask.

1.Where can I get or how do I make Ammonium perchlorate since I know its not easy to get? Hobby Chemical Supply has AP for $7.00 a pound.

2.Where do I get polybutadiëne acrylic acidacrylonitrile?An equivalent binder is fine. Firefox has PBAN

3.What are the chances of it exploding? Very good without the proper containment and testing.

4.Please post ANY formulas equivalent or BETTER than the SRBs. HMX or RDX or even nitroglycerin is fine. Go the HE section for this.

Also if anyone knows how to make c-4 for the separation of stages the formula would be nice. Go the HE section for this.

[burningRNX]

Also any liquid rockets would be cool and the needed pumps and turbines.I've never made a liquid engine so please explain in detail.I might make a mini v-2 rocket.

Well, you have to make turbopumps for liquid oxygen and hydrogen, piss easy.

Maybey you should try BP engines first ?

Edited July 11, 2011 by burningRNX

[dagabu]

Well, you have to make turbopumps for liquid oxygen and hydrogen, piss easy.

 

Now that was funny! Really Kenny, you will want to talk to the high power rocket guys about APCP rocket motors and then get their feedback about what goes into making them before spending your time on this project. If you want to make a tribute to the space shuttle program, perhaps launching a model space shuttle would be the ticket.

 

-dag

[r1dermon]

your best option...HONESTLY, is to buy a G glass motor from aerotech or CTI. aerotech is a little more hands on to "build" (really assemble), and CTI is very easy and straight forward.

 

making propellent is the easy part. it's casting it, and forming grains, then calculating thrust, and figuring out the optimal nozzle throat diameter and taper that's the hard part. strongly consider buying a "reloadable" rocket motor casing and doing it that way.

 

if you'd like to get into building rocket motors, join the tripoli rocket association. you'll find WORLD CLASS rocket motor builders who would be glad to show you the way. you're going to need a metal casing due to the heat/chamber pressures created, and also graphite or phenolic nozzle material. i can't even begin to describe how complex it is, but needless to say, it's much more complex than building fireworks.

 

you do not need C4 in any capacity. LOL.

 

one other thing to consider is, you, as a hobbyist/amateur, can only legally purchase G motors with less than 80N of average thrust. that means the biggest motor you can possibly purchase without a certification, is a G80. fortunately several companies make G80's for the general public...STRONGLY consider using one for your mission.

 

if your intention is to fly a rocket in the H impulse range or larger, you're going to need to join a rocket association, form a rocketry related business, or enter into an educational field dealing in rocketry. these are the only ways the ATF is "cool" with you purchasing rocket motors with hundreds of pounds of thrust. a lvl 1 certification is very easy to obtain, and will allow you to fly motors in the H and I range, as well as G and F motors with greater than 80N of average thrust. for instance, aerotech makes a propellent aptly named "warp9". the H load for this propellent generates 1000N of average thrust for about 1/3rd of a second. putting that into pounds, you're slightly over 200lbs of thrust for 1/3rd of a second. that's enough to send a 3lb rocket between 1500 and 2000ft. 1/3rd of a second of burn time. it's a controlled explosion. lol. there's also a G load in warp9, it's in the 300+ N range average.

 

all thats required for your lvl 1 certification is A. you need to be a member of the NAR or the TRA, you need to find a lvl 2 certified flyer to oversee you. you need to build a rocket that will fly stably on an H or I motor. you need to build the motor under the supervision of a senior certified member, then fly your rocket safely at a sponsored (insured) event in your area. upon landing, your rocket cannot sustain any damage...it needs to be 100% ready to fly again in order to be successful. once that's done, you'll get your card in the mail. vendors require you fax this card, along with your ID to them before they'll ship a lvl1 motor to you.

 

for lvl 2, you need to take a test dealing with the NFPA regulations and various rocketry terminology. it's not as easy as you may think, but if you study you'll do well. you then need to build and fly a rocket on a lvl 2 motor, which is a J, K, or L impulse range. same rules apply, successful flight, no damage=success. you need a BATFE LEUP and storage to buy and store lvl 2 motors.

 

for lvl 3 you need a sponsor who is certified with the organization as someone who can sponsor a lvl 3 flier. not just anyone can do it. you need highly detailed build photo's, details of the process you used, you need to mathmatically be able to prove your huge rocket is stable, and you have to use electronic parachute deployment, which means you need to use an altimeter, or timer, or G-switch...for the NAR, a lvl 3 certification will allow you to purchase and fly M, N, and O motors (which are certified with the agency), for the TRA, a lvl 2 will allow you to build and fly motors in your certified impulse range (J,K,L), a lvl 3 will allow you to build motors as large as you want...as big as the space shuttle if you've got the cash and the know how. a lvl 1 WILL NOT allow you to build your own motors and fly them at a club event.

 

rocketry is serious business my friend. you really have to know a lot of math/chemistry/physics to start building your own motors. commercial motors are very reliable, have awesome thrust/sound, and are much easier to just purchase, load, and fire off. for that reason, i strongly suggest you get into it one step at a time. head over the rocketryforum.com and start reading. a lot of guys there will help you along as they helped me.

 

good luck.

[anapogeetoofar]

NO.

 

Make a sugar rocket or BP rocket.

 

The fact that you want to use plastic explosive for separation charges, and think HMX and RDX are viable amateur propellants pretty much says enough. IF you attempt to do this little experiment of yours it WILL fail, horribly. possibly hurting you or someone else. Don't do it.

 

If you want to get involved with amateur rocketry then that's fine, just Be prepared to spend hours of research, hundreds of dollars, and hours of building and launching. You also have to be 18 and get proper certification with tripoli.

 

Or just do a few hours of research, spend $50 and make some stick stabilized sugar rockets and launch them in a field.

 

If you really, absolutley must make a fin stabilized rocket powered by your own motor:

 

Go: HERE

And: HERE

 

Read EVERYTHING, skip NOTHING. Read the safety sections MULTIPLE times.

 

 

 

[Kenny]

The ?s asked were by no means to build a high tech rocket to launch 2000ft.The formula for the srbs were just to obtain the right chemicals for a way less sophisticated rocket while the formula forthings like c-4 and rdx are mostly for future refrence,expanding my knowlegde, and out of curiosty.When I said c-4 for stage seperation that was more of a simple use and future use.Plus who knows I might find somethng useful in a formula for c-4.example oxidzer.Which brings me to one last question that is mostly based on opinion.What is the strongest oxidizer that non-toxic?I know the stronget one is osmium tetroxide but that is extremely toxic,rare, and expensive.Keep in mind the weight of the oxidizer.It maybe a strong oxidizer but if its too heavy it lowers the overall performance unless the oxidizer is strong enough to compensate.

[Kenny]

your best option...HONESTLY, is to buy a G glass motor from aerotech or CTI. aerotech is a little more hands on to "build" (really assemble), and CTI is very easy and straight forward.

 

making propellent is the easy part. it's casting it, and forming grains, then calculating thrust, and figuring out the optimal nozzle throat diameter and taper that's the hard part. strongly consider buying a "reloadable" rocket motor casing and doing it that way.

 

if you'd like to get into building rocket motors, join the tripoli rocket association. you'll find WORLD CLASS rocket motor builders who would be glad to show you the way. you're going to need a metal casing due to the heat/chamber pressures created, and also graphite or phenolic nozzle material. i can't even begin to describe how complex it is, but needless to say, it's much more complex than building fireworks.

 

you do not need C4 in any capacity. LOL.

 

one other thing to consider is, you, as a hobbyist/amateur, can only legally purchase G motors with less than 80N of average thrust. that means the biggest motor you can possibly purchase without a certification, is a G80. fortunately several companies make G80's for the general public...STRONGLY consider using one for your mission.

 

if your intention is to fly a rocket in the H impulse range or larger, you're going to need to join a rocket association, form a rocketry related business, or enter into an educational field dealing in rocketry. these are the only ways the ATF is "cool" with you purchasing rocket motors with hundreds of pounds of thrust. a lvl 1 certification is very easy to obtain, and will allow you to fly motors in the H and I range, as well as G and F motors with greater than 80N of average thrust. for instance, aerotech makes a propellent aptly named "warp9". the H load for this propellent generates 1000N of average thrust for about 1/3rd of a second. putting that into pounds, you're slightly over 200lbs of thrust for 1/3rd of a second. that's enough to send a 3lb rocket between 1500 and 2000ft. 1/3rd of a second of burn time. it's a controlled explosion. lol. there's also a G load in warp9, it's in the 300+ N range average.

 

all thats required for your lvl 1 certification is A. you need to be a member of the NAR or the TRA, you need to find a lvl 2 certified flyer to oversee you. you need to build a rocket that will fly stably on an H or I motor. you need to build the motor under the supervision of a senior certified member, then fly your rocket safely at a sponsored (insured) event in your area. upon landing, your rocket cannot sustain any damage...it needs to be 100% ready to fly again in order to be successful. once that's done, you'll get your card in the mail. vendors require you fax this card, along with your ID to them before they'll ship a lvl1 motor to you.

 

for lvl 2, you need to take a test dealing with the NFPA regulations and various rocketry terminology. it's not as easy as you may think, but if you study you'll do well. you then need to build and fly a rocket on a lvl 2 motor, which is a J, K, or L impulse range. same rules apply, successful flight, no damage=success. you need a BATFE LEUP and storage to buy and store lvl 2 motors.

 

for lvl 3 you need a sponsor who is certified with the organization as someone who can sponsor a lvl 3 flier. not just anyone can do it. you need highly detailed build photo's, details of the process you used, you need to mathmatically be able to prove your huge rocket is stable, and you have to use electronic parachute deployment, which means you need to use an altimeter, or timer, or G-switch...for the NAR, a lvl 3 certification will allow you to purchase and fly M, N, and O motors (which are certified with the agency), for the TRA, a lvl 2 will allow you to build and fly motors in your certified impulse range (J,K,L), a lvl 3 will allow you to build motors as large as you want...as big as the space shuttle if you've got the cash and the know how. a lvl 1 WILL NOT allow you to build your own motors and fly them at a club event.

 

rocketry is serious business my friend. you really have to know a lot of math/chemistry/physics to start building your own motors. commercial motors are very reliable, have awesome thrust/sound, and are much easier to just purchase, load, and fire off. for that reason, i strongly suggest you get into it one step at a time. head over the rocketryforum.com and start reading. a lot of guys there will help you along as they helped me.

 

good luck.

I see what your saying and by no means meant to build a giant rocket.Trust me I worked hard enough for my first rocket to even move and then fly 40 ft in the air and it was mostly coincidence.The reason why I not ready to purchase comercial motor is that it takes the fun out.I also heard that there is a federal law for rocket motor size but its giant and is almost capable of reaching space.Correct me if I'm wrong.My source was the solid-skateboards rocket guy on YouTube.

[Kenny]

Well, you have to make turbopumps for liquid oxygen and hydrogen, piss easy.

Maybey you should try BP engines first ?

 

I meant liquid engineformulas

[dagabu]

The ?s asked were by no means to build a high tech rocket to launch 2000ft.The formula for the srbs were just to obtain the right chemicals for a way less sophisticated rocket while the formula forthings like c-4 and rdx are mostly for future refrence,expanding my knowlegde, and out of curiosty.When I said c-4 for stage seperation that was more of a simple use and future use.Plus who knows I might find somethng useful in a formula for c-4.example oxidzer.Which brings me to one last question that is mostly based on opinion.What is the strongest oxidizer that non-toxic?I know the stronget one is osmium tetroxide but that is extremely toxic,rare, and expensive.Keep in mind the weight of the oxidizer.It maybe a strong oxidizer but if its too heavy it lowers the overall performance unless the oxidizer is strong enough to compensate.

 

By the time Mumbles or Sidewinder get here are read your posts, they will probably smack you up the back side of your head and tell you to knock it off. RDX, C-4 etc are HE and belong only there.

 

What exactly do you wish to do then since you mentioned 40' and 2000' in your last postings so I am more confused now then when you made your first posting.

 

-dag

[Kenny]

By the time Mumbles or Sidewinder get here are read your posts, they will probably smack you up the back side of your head and tell you to knock it off. RDX, C-4 etc are HE and belong only there.

 

What exactly do you wish to do then since you mentioned 40' and 2000' in your last postings so I am more confused now then when you made your first posting.

 

-dag

 

That was a reply to someelse.By the way Mumbles already did smack me.

[dagabu]

That was a reply to someelse.By the way Mumbles already did smack me.

 

If it is posted here, it's for us all...

 

What exactly do you wish to do then since you mentioned 40' and 2000' in your last postings so I am more confused now then when you made your first posting.

 

-dag

[Kenny]

If it is posted here, it's for us all...

 

What exactly do you wish to do then since you mentioned 40' and 2000' in your last postings so I am more confused now then when you made your first posting.

 

-dag

 

The first rocket that I ever built successfully flew 40ft high.someone else mentioned a rocket flying 2000ft .I replied saying I didn't want a rocket to fly that high

[dagabu]

The first rocket that I ever built successfully flew 40ft high.someone else mentioned a rocket flying 2000ft .I replied saying I didn't want a rocket to fly that high

 

Seriously, with all that has been told you, what is it that you want to do now? Don't repeat what I, you or anything else anyone has posted, just tell us where you want to go now.

 

-dag

[anapogeetoofar]

*facepalmheaddeskcombo

 

Kid, listen: Stop. Stop before you make things even worse for yourself.

 

You come in here, your spelling, grammar, and punctuation are abhorrent, you ask to be spoon fed the synthesis of high explosives, you want to mix up PBAN AP, and you haven't even got a rocket to fly higher than 40 feet.

 

Both me and another member told you what you need to do. Either join tripoli wait until you're 18, or experiment with small sugar an BP rockets. You don't need to make high explosives, nobody here is going to assist you with making high explosives, and nobody, NOBODY under the age of 18 has ANY business screwing about with high explosives, EVER. And quit it with the "future reference" crap, you aren't fooling anybody.

 

What we all trying to tell you is: you're feet best be firmly planted on the ground before you are sending anything off it. Understand?

 

Now, what do you want to do?

 

Make a sugar rocket?

Black powder rocket?

Or join Tripoli?

Or some other safe, age and experience level appropriate option.

 

Pick one and we would be glad to help.

[burningRNX]

I meant liquid engineformulas

Sorry, I thougt you meant rocketengine's based upon O2/hydrogen .

Yes, I know BP is not liquid, i know you can't make liquid rocket engine's, so I suggest BP.

Edited July 11, 2011 by burningRNX

[Kenny]

OK, this has gotten way out of hand.:mellow:My main question was were I could get two of the chemical for the srb fuel.I have gotten rockets over 40ft.That was simply my first rocket.The high explosive stuff I'm not going to even touch.It was out of curiosity since Wikipedia didn't explain it well enough.Sorry for the confusion and spelling errors.I don't bother to read over my post because its not like I'm submitting this to the freaking dean.The other reason why my grammar may not be so great is because I speak German.What I'm going to do is to continue to make sugar rockets. Edited July 11, 2011 by Kenny

[Kenny]

*facepalmheaddeskcombo

 

Kid, listen: Stop. Stop before you make things even worse for yourself.

 

You come in here, your spelling, grammar, and punctuation are abhorrent, you ask to be spoon fed the synthesis of high explosives, you want to mix up PBAN AP, and you haven't even got a rocket to fly higher than 40 feet.

 

Both me and another member told you what you need to do. Either join tripoli wait until you're 18, or experiment with small sugar an BP rockets. You don't need to make high explosives, nobody here is going to assist you with making high explosives, and nobody, NOBODY under the age of 18 has ANY business screwing about with high explosives, EVER. And quit it with the "future reference" crap, you aren't fooling anybody.

 

What we all trying to tell you is: you're feet best be firmly planted on the ground before you are sending anything off it. Understand?

 

Now, what do you want to do?

 

Make a sugar rocket?

Black powder rocket?

 

 

 

Who said I was under 18?Not that I'm rejecting it but I"m not accepting it.

Or join Tripoli?

Or some other safe, age and experience level appropriate option.

 

Pick one and we would be glad to help.

Who said I was under 18?Not that I'm rejecting it but I'm not accepting it.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Kenny

[anapogeetoofar]

Fine, I'll answer you're original question.

 

AP can be bought form several suppliers, as can PBAN. Just UTFSE.

 

Your formula does not specify the curative and does not specify the size of AP needed So you best figure that out.

 

You want to make a motor with it? Here's what you NEED to get a motor out of that propellant:

 

6061 T6 aluminum tubing.

garolite xx phenolic round bars.

Graphite round bars.

Aluminum stock.

Snap rings.

buna n O rings

thermal liners.

grain liners.

 

You also need:

 

lathe and the skills tto use one

mixer

curing oven

degassing unit

propellant simulator software

 

You will also need the following information:

 

Burn rate coefficient of your propellant.

Burn rate exponent of your propellant.

ISP of your propellant.

Density of your propellant.

Specific heat ratio of your propellant.

 

You will need to understand the following to design a safe motor even with simulator software:

 

grain geometry

Mass flux

mass flow

erosive burning.

 

 

THAT is what is NEEDED to make a safe and usable motor for the propellant you propose, does that answer your question?

[r1dermon]

OR!!!!!

 

you could buy a 2 pack of aerotech F20's for like 25 bucks...and stick them in the ass end of a small LOC precision or aerotech rocket kit. grand total cost would be a hair over 100 bucks, less if you use someone elses launch pad.

 

or for a reusable casing

(that second one is very loud in person...it attempts to mimic the shuttle's noise and flame with the formula used, combined with the nozzle throat, to produce a ripping sound. it's pretty awesome in person, and YOU can buy them WITHOUT a license, and they're pretty fool proof!)