The thread for posts unworthy of their own thread

[dagabu]

Can anyone tell me about the stars used in this mine? The video is in the lower right hand corner. It's from Wichita Buggy Whip. Interesting Effect

 

Thanks.

 

After last nights show, I dont care if I never see another dragon egg. There was a good 10 minute stretch where every shell had it in the rising effect, shell body, pistol, star core or comet. The thing is that only four of the shells even had it listed on the label.

 

-dag

[stckmndn]

Thanks for the replies. Agree the effect should be used sparingly.

[Vrizla]

I second that Dag. Way too many dragon egg's in my store bought cakes and shells. Luckily I had plenty of other effects to add to the mix. Ironically I was concerned that I didn't have any dragon egg's. I like them in moderation but it was too much. It's just like a whistle, they are great if used properly but if you have too many of them it's just annoying.

[dagabu]

I second that Dag. Way too many dragon egg's in my store bought cakes and shells. Luckily I had plenty of other effects to add to the mix. Ironically I was concerned that I didn't have any dragon egg's. I like them in moderation but it was too much. It's just like a whistle, they are great if used properly but if you have too many of them it's just annoying.

 

Whistle inserts in shells are fun, 1000 whistle missile batterys are annoying. I like a full sky crackle burst for effect and the sound. One, as in "a" shell, not a 200 shot z cake full of crackle.

 

-dag

[stckmndn]

Hey Dag,

 

I think I remember seeing a video of you cutting end disks with the HF hole / disc cutter. The center drill bit was removed and the cut disks would go flying across the room once cut. Problem is, I can't seem to do this with the same set up. Mine get mangled when I don't use the center drill bit. Any tips? Do I need to sharpen the bajeezus out of the cutters?

[dagabu]

Hey Dag,

 

I think I remember seeing a video of you cutting end disks with the HF hole / disc cutter. The center drill bit was removed and the cut disks would go flying across the room once cut. Problem is, I can't seem to do this with the same set up. Mine get mangled when I don't use the center drill bit. Any tips? Do I need to sharpen the bajeezus out of the cutters?

 

I seldom use the HF cutter anymore, I use my press to punch them now. I got a damaged hole saw set from a garage sale where the guy ran the saws backwards (should have had his "Man" license pulled) and burnt all the teeth. I chucked them up and ground the teeth off the entire set and put a sharp edge on them. Then I flattened out a piece of schedule 80 PVC pipe to use as a cutting board. Slick as snot on a door knob!!

 

The secret to cutting with the HF cutter is to make sure the drill press bed is completely flat and use clamps to hold the Davey board down flat. Start slow to score the outer layer and then apply pressure enough to cut and not burn the paper. Thin materials do not work for this.

 

THIS set will probably work well as punches on a hydraulic press, just grind the teeth off.

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

Hey Dag, What about your e match dip? Do you think it is necessary to do hot prime then top with H3 then NCL? What about hot prime 50/50 chlorate antimony then NCL dip? Is the H3 just for extra safety against friction or extra flame or both? Because the ones that just had hot prime and NCL dip for protection against friction performed just as good as the ones with H3.

[dagabu]

Hey Dag, What about your e match dip? Do you think it is necessary to do hot prime then top with H3 then NCL? What about hot prime 50/50 chlorate antimony then NCL dip? Is the H3 just for extra safety against friction or extra flame or both? Because the ones that just had hot prime and NCL dip for protection against friction performed just as good as the ones with H3.

 

I follow the ODA directions using 5g Chlorate, add thin NCL to make a watery syrup, add 5g fine Antimony Trisulfide to the liquid, this as necessary. Dip only the tip of the match (1/64" to 1/32") and let dry. Use 5g of fine BP meal, add NCL to this, dip 3/4 of the match and let dry.

 

Over coat the match with 10% NCL for strength. No friction worries, safe to insert right into a pile of AP.

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

There is a thread in the HE section about an e match formula started by WSM he has a really complex formula that requires lab equipment. I don't know why you would need that crazy of a formula maybe for HE? I'm not really into HE I requested access because I thought it was about stuff like double break titanium shells, flash inserts, colored flash... stuff like that. For those of you that don't have HE access the formula listed above is not mine, I don't remember where I found it but so far It's 100% successful. I think I found it on an old thread from this site, I thought it was ODA's but they top with meal as said by dag. They are also now selling pre dipped heads, but why waste your money. . This is the first year I dipped my own matches by myself, maybe some of my matches with single dip hot prime the mix got a little too thick thus not needing top coat. I thinned it out several times with acetone but NCL dries quick. I only mix up 1 gram at a time, I don't have that many matches, plus I was still in the experimental stage. Next time I order match heads I'm getting at least 500 of them if not 1000.

 

Dag have you ever tried just the 50/50 mix then NCL dip? or 50/50 mix topped with H3 instead of meal then overcoat? When you say you use 10% NCL overcoat is that 1 part NCL 9 parts acetone or do you make your own NCL. I made my own last year but I can't be sure it was nitrocellulose. I made them from ping pong balls from Walmart Someone said they were 100" nitrocellulose but I have a feeling that they were part champor. The only thing I used it for was to create a BP slurry to pain on fuse for easy ignition during the show. It performed well but there's nothing like instant ignition,

 

It's not that i'm having any problems with my matches, I'm just curious why some people do second dip with H3 while others use meal and is it considered unsafe to use matches that are only single dipped with 50/50 chlorate/antimony tri then top coat with NCL

Edited July 7, 2011 by Vrizla

[dagabu]

There is a thread in the HE section about an e match formula started by WSM he has a really complex formula that requires lab equipment. I don't know why you would need that crazy of a formula maybe for HE? I'm not really into HE I requested access because I thought it was about stuff like double break titanium shells, flash inserts, colored flash... stuff like that. For those of you that don't have HE access the formula listed above is not mine, I don't remember where I found it but so far It's 100% successful. I think I found it on an old thread from this site, I thought it was ODA's but they top with meal as said by dag.

 

Nope, there are two methods for the over cover, I choose the BP instead of the H3 for my own reasons.

 

They are also now selling pre dipped heads, but why waste your money. .

 

Octavio told me just last month...

 

Hello Dag (sic),

Sorry, we no longer sell coated E-Match Heads thanks to BATF. Thank you for visiting our website

www.oda-ent.com

 

This is the first year I dipped my own matches by myself, maybe some of my matches with single dip hot prime the mix got a little too thick thus not needing top coat. I thinned it out several times with acetone but NCL dries quick. I only mix up 1 gram at a time, I don't have that many matches, plus I was still in the experimental stage. Next time I order match heads I'm getting at least 500 of them if not 1000.

 

Dag have you ever tried just the 50/50 mix then NCL dip? or 50/50 mix topped with H3 instead of meal then overcoat?

 

There are several things that dont work so well because of the limitations the bridge wire has, being that it is 50 gauge. 50/50 will snap when just coated on the very tip of the match when 6 volts is used. My ODA blaster Box violently flashes and rips the copper off of the PCB when using 50/50 while the use of BP/NCL simply flames after the wire snaps. The BP/NCL first coating will not fire when using low voltage. the wire burns and breaks but does not light raw BP/NCL. The match must match the power source or the results will be disappointing.

 

When you say you use 10% NCL overcoat is that 1 part NCL 9 parts acetone or do you make your own NCL. I made my own last year but I can't be sure it was nitrocellulose. I made them from ping pong balls from Walmart Someone said they were 100" nitrocellulose but I have a feeling that they were part champor. The only thing I used it for was to create a BP slurry to pain on fuse for easy ignition during the show. It performed well but there's nothing like instant ignition,

 

Ping-pong balls are my very least form of NCL, I find that it blocks fire, it does not act as does good NCL and in my opinion, is a waste of money to try but we all have to see for ourselves, right?

 

It's not that i'm having any problems with my matches, I'm just curious why some people do second dip with H3 while others use meal and is it considered unsafe to use matches that are only single dipped with 50/50 chlorate/antimony tri then top coat with NCL

 

I have a few AP items that I use (APCP rocket fuel and some falling leaves) and Potassium Chlorate in combination is a dangerous combination. The BP or H3 creates a solid barrier between the two.

 

"Both Ammonium Perchlorate and Potassium Chlorate are salts. With just a

little bit of moisture, the ions are free to migrate. One of the

results is that you will create Ammonium Chlorate, which is very

unstable. From Wikipedia:

 

"Ammonium chlorate is a very unstable oxidizer and will decompose,

sometimes violently, at room temperature. It will explode when exposed

to sunlight for a few minutes. Even solutions are known to be unstable.

Because of the dangerous nature of this salt it should only be kept in

solution when needed, and never be allowed to crystallize."

-WP-

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

I just found this page this morning http://www.oda-ent.com/e-match%20heads%20with%20pyrogen.htm

I was wondering why they didn't have a link to it. I wasn't suggesting using the other formula listed in HE it's totally ridiculous and unnecessary. I could have my matches dipped and drying while he is still using his vacuum equipment, but I'm not putting it down because he seems to be very proud of it. I would never use ping pong balls anymore, it was out of desperation.

 

This is where I found the formula that I am using

http://www.privatedata.com/byb/rocketry/Ignitor/e-match_igniter.html

 

Thank you for all the information I used a 9 volt battery and all my matches just burned like a stick match, but I will no longer omit the BP or H3 top coat just in case.

 

One more question for you Dag, How do you obtain 10% NCL All I have is the ready mixed fuse green stuff as sold in the kits or by the quart on pyro sites. I'm not positive but I think the directions in the kits say to use it straight as an over coat.

[dagabu]

Sorry!

 

I forgot to address that. Buy Nitrocellulose Cotton from Firefox and BY WEIGHT add 90 parts acetone to the cotton. That gives you a 10% mix.

 

I know you found the link but Octavio does not sell them like that anymore

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

Yea I really could care less about buying dipped heads, why spend the extra money? Plus I don't want to get the crap scared out of me if I touch the iron to the head by accident as they said has happened to them.

 

Is there anything wrong with using ready made NCL? All of the e-match kits come with it I just add a little acetone until it looks right.

Not that I support buying those stupid kits!

 

I'm so tired of buying end plugs, I have been experimenting with ways to get clean cut's. Do you really think that cheap set from harbor freight will work cutting thin material with a press if tooled properly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/

Edited July 7, 2011 by Vrizla

[dagabu]

Yea I really could care less about buying dipped heads, why spend the extra money? Plus I don't want to get the crap scared out of me if I touch the iron to the head by accident as they said has happened to them.

 

Is there anything wrong with using ready made NCL? All of the e-match kits come with it I just add a little acetone until it looks right.

Not that I support buying those stupid kits!

 

I'm so tired of buying end plugs, I have been experimenting with ways to get clean cut's. Do you really think that cheap set from harbor freight will work cutting thin material with a press if tooled properly?

 

Yup, just cut 200 disks today for rocket nosings. Works great! I left my camera at work I will get it tomorrow and take a quick video of how it works.

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

Awesome!! I can't wait to see it I just scraped off the drips from can of NCL it says it's 25% I''m pretty sure I thinned it out before I did the overcoat on matches but I'm not positive. Not that I had any problems with them popping, but If I can roughly cut it with 50% acetone to spread it out and save money.

[stckmndn]

If I sent up two identical rocket headers, one spiked with strapping tape and the other traditionally with string, what differences would be noticed? Never tried the strapping tape.

[dagabu]

Plastic = yuck!

 

Strapping tape leads to side splits since it is significantly stronger then string spiking and the contents squirt out one of the sides or ends. I have tried it many times and just gave up, string is cheap and people really like the way a string spiked shell looks.

 

-dag

[stckmndn]

What is the best string / twine for spiking 3" rocket headers?

[r1dermon]

grab some sisal twine...the traditionalists would cringe at the thought of synthetic twine...even more so at strapping tape. (we've all done it).

[Mumbles]

Cotton is probably the most traditional spiking material, but I don't like it all that much. It is very stretchy. You really do need to use pasted string for it to really be good preforming. I've been using hemp jewelry twine for the last several years with excellent results. I've been getting it at Wal-mart, but when you build a lot of shells it gets a bit pricy. Use the 20lb break stuff. I believe it has around 300ft/ball, and is about the size of a baseball. The string should be 1-1.5mm or so. They will have two other varieties there, 48lb and 180lb, both of which are too thick for 3" shells by far.

 

If you want the really top notch stuff, you can't go wrong with the stuff from pyrosupplies. It may seem expensive (and it's definitely not cheap), but it's actually cheaper than the hemp I just recommended.

 

http://www.pyrosupplies.com/shop/page/product_detail/Product/2435a34984cf4295d42812e2c6ca665f.html

[dagabu]

"Traditionalists" use linen though like Mum says, cotton is more traditional. The Fulcanelli papers mention cotton and poly cotton string with special attention paid to the ability of the string to absorb paste, there is no mention that it is not OK to use it and I have found one pyro using it to spike shells and he didnt even know that it was poly cotton until I looked inside the cone and there was a sticker saying Poly-Cotton 8 ply string LINK.

 

There is no mention of the poly on line so he thought it was 100% cotton but even after finding out that it was poly cotton, he is still using it (that's why I dont use his name) and likes it because it does not stretch nearly as much as 100% cotton.

 

Back to the subject: As Mum eluded to, spiking twine is mostly based on a single pass of 20# twine, the spiking patterns are based on using a single pass of 20# twine. Also, though there is some concern about the overall quality of these guys HEMP, Old Glory has rolls of 20# and 48# hemp for a great price.

 

I personally have and have used both of the twines I listed, they have good and pad points, I have also used linen and if you can afford it, it is the best stuff to use hands down. In the end, its up to you, try what is available and see how it performs.

 

-dag

[dagabu]

Cotton twine can be found here as well, it is a 5#, 6000' spool of 8 ply cotton twine.

 

LINK

 

-dag

[stckmndn]

Cotton is probably the most traditional spiking material, but I don't like it all that much. It is very stretchy. You really do need to use pasted string for it to really be good preforming. I've been using hemp jewelry twine for the last several years with excellent results. I've been getting it at Wal-mart, but when you build a lot of shells it gets a bit pricy. Use the 20lb break stuff. I believe it has around 300ft/ball, and is about the size of a baseball. The string should be 1-1.5mm or so. They will have two other varieties there, 48lb and 180lb, both of which are too thick for 3" shells by far.

 

If you want the really top notch stuff, you can't go wrong with the stuff from pyrosupplies. It may seem expensive (and it's definitely not cheap), but it's actually cheaper than the hemp I just recommended.

 

http://www.pyrosuppl...e2c6ca665f.html

 

That is exactly what I was looking for. And all things considered the price is actually pretty good. I paid $46.35 delivered which should equal 228 spiked shells at $.21 each. Sweet.

 

Thanks for the great link, Mumbles.

[Mumbles]

Be careful with that string, you'll spoil yourself rotten with it. Nothing else will measure up.

 

The real problem with hemp is that it varies wildly in quality and consistency. I've generally had better luck with Hungarian over the Romanian products, but still haven't found anything incredibly stellar. I'm probably just getting the Pyro supplies stuff.

[dagabu]

Be careful with that string, you'll spoil yourself rotten with it. Nothing else will measure up.

 

 

Aint that the truth!

 

-dag