USAPyro's No-NC Dragon Eggs

[usapyro]

When trying to perfect DE are you making small 10 gram batches then if they dont work as wanted do you make another 10 gram batch or do you just add more kclo4 and re wet and cut again? Also would a scale with .01 accuracy be good enough for small 10 gram batches ?

 

Yea. I use a 0.01g accuracy ProScale. Got it quite a while ago... They are very nice and accurate.

 

I never re-wet. I just make multiple mixes with different ratio's... Then test! But, you could try it that way... Might be a headache getting the binder dissolved after it hardens.

 

I have seen some DE formulas with about +4% KNO3 in them. So, I think you can use many different oxidizers. KClO3 would be rather sensitive though. Wouldn't try that!

Edited July 6, 2017 by usapyro

[usapyro]

This is a very interesting formula for dragon eggs... I think it is a formula from Passfire converted to percentages.

 

Lead tetraoxide (Minium) - 44
Cupric oxide - 31
Magnalium (60-200 mesh) - 17
Sulfur - 4
Potassium nitrate - 4

 

I am not sure if it smoulders hot enough to use a Red Gum binder, or needs +10% NC... Wish I had time to test it!

[insutama]

so i just did a 10 gram micro batch of

MAIN COMPOSITION

USAPryo's Dragon Eggs
Bismuth Trioxide 30.0g
CuO 35.5g
MgAl 50:50 23.5g (100-200 Mesh optimal for 2.5-5mm Eggs)
KCl04 6g
Red Gum 5g - Binder (Alcohol)

 

i just lit one but it wasnt completely dry and all it did was like sizzle so hopfully after its fully dry i will have better results

[insutama]

Total fail the dried stars lit unprimed with a torch just made a effect like a micro glitter star no bang at all what should i try to fix this?

[usapyro]

Total fail the dried stars lit unprimed with a torch just made a effect like a micro glitter star no bang at all what should i try to fix this?

 

Drop MgAl to 2.1g, and reduce KClO4 to 0.4g for the 10g batch. Ignore adding up to 100% for now.

 

Most likely could be just fixed by reducing just KClO4 to 0.3g. But, try the above. The formula is too reactive with your MgAl for some reason. Also, you 100% sure you didn't add to much KClO4?

Edited July 7, 2017 by usapyro

[insutama]

Okay i will try this when im back from work wont be home till late tomorrow but ill post the results when done thanks usapyro

[insutama]

okay update:

 

I tryed them with the new adjustments you gave me and they burnt a tad slower but still like a start with absoultly no crackles

anymore ideas how i can adjust them ?

[lloyd]

What adjustments? Who 'gave you'? My formula?

 

If you're talking about my Bismuth Trioxide formula made to the letter of the instructions supplied, it's a long-tested and proven formula, made by many amateurs successfully. I've made hundreds of pounds of the stars, using many different batches of chemicals over the years. I've never had a batch fail after I finally settled on the methods to make them. My prior employer still makes them without my presence, and succeeds every time.

 

If it's 'burning like a star', you definitely are not making it correctly. The formula crackles reliably in almost any form, with almost any prime that will ignite them.

 

For JUST ONCE, Insutama, why don't you detail your method for us, including exactly how you made these failed stars -- include the character of and weights of each chemical, how you mixed, how you formed the stars, their size, and how you primed them.

 

One of the problems we've had helping you is with the complete lack of real detail you've shared in the past.

 

(not a 'chide', just a hopefully helpful recommendation)

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

My latest batch as I said is more mouse turd than sphere and they'll deafen you with a single crack.

 

[insutama]

i weighed out 3 grams of Bismuth trioxide, .4 grams kclo4 put them in my mortar & pestle ground them up good together (they were both already ball milled ahead of time) then i poured that mixture from my M&P into a mixing bowl. I then added 3 grams of CUO ( i just realized i was suppost to add 35.5g) then 2.1 mgal (200mesh), then .5 gram redgum.

after mixing all together real well in bowl i sprits on 99% iso alcohol till i can work it into a batter with my hands then i put the batter on some wax paper with kabob sticks on each side to get the hight right then i put a other piece of wax paper on top of the batter then i roll it with a round bar to get the desired hight then i wait a few minutes remove the top wax paper and begin cutting into small cubes about 1/16th" X 1/16th". i then let dry for about 8 hrs and then to test i put one cube on some cement then light it with my propane torch and it has been instantly lighting up like a glitter star with not a single pop. I ordered my bismuth from ihaveadotcom.com and my mgal is 200 mesh. Dont know if im missing anything please forgive me for my lack of information in the past i will really do my best to be more detailed in the future.

Would the lack of Cuo be the cause maybe ?

 

I will wait for your replay to make sure im not missing anything else then i will try again i am very determined to get this right. Thanks for taking the time to help me

and i am in no way questioning your formula i am fully aware that the issue here is not your formula its my method or possible my materials. I just really want to get some loud snapping DG's and I really like your method not having to use NC laqour in the past i found it very messy using NC laqour however i did get small crackles just no loud pops. Sorry if i have been hard to work with lloyd im really just am asking your expertise because i really want to make this formula to work. Ill try making a other batch with the right CUO and see if that helps. plus ill try using my more a curate scale

[insutama]

Also im using a farly large stainless steel bowl so i loose a bit of comp stuck to the side of the bowl after maybe i should use a smaller bowl ? or glass ?

[lloyd]

That's not my formula, so you're on your own. I realize you understand that, but I cannot help with any formula I have not tried.

 

Besides, you've already told us you mixed it incorrectly! Why would you suspect it would work if it doesn't have enough (by a factor of MORE THAN 10:1) of the PRIMARY oxidizer (CuO)??? <shrug>

 

Lloyd

Edited July 9, 2017 by lloyd

[insutama]

yes i know i was saying i am not questioning the formula period i know its usa pyros but im just saying thats not the issue anyway ill wait for usapyros responce thanks for your input lloyd

[lloyd]

But... but... if you KNOW you mixed it incorrectly, WHY are you waiting for his response before you mix it the right way, and try again?

 

Really? How could even the author of the formula help if you know you used 11:1 too-little primary oxidizer?

 

Really?

 

Lloyd

[insutama]

okay ill go re attempt it then. i will report my results

[OldMarine]

I've been fairly successful in all the pyro projects I've undertaken because I've tried my best to follow formula and method as closely as possible and because I've put all of my failures up for examination and criticism so I could avoid them in the future. Lloyd, Dagabu, Mumbles, DaveF etc. can be harsh critics but I take the lumps along with the advice and have corrected my mistakes ....well, except for rockets which have so many variables that only experimenting will work the bugs out.

[insutama]

So i re did the batch using usapyro first formula i tried

3 bismuth

3.55 CuO

2.35 MgAl

.6 kclo4

.5 Redgum

I weighed each chem on a small peice of kraft then put all the weighed chems together on a peice of paper and did the diaper mixing method for 5 mins. I then re weighed the total weight and it weighed 10.0g so i know i didnt miss anything.(pics below)

I then poured the 10gs of comp onto some wax paper and spritzed it with iso alch until it was in a dough then i put down 2 spacers then another peice of wax paper on top then rolled it down to the spacers. Then removed top wax paper and let sit for 5 min then cut.

I purposly cut them into different sizes so i could try differnt sizes incase i had the egg size wrong.

They are now drying and in a few hours ill try torching a few and report my results

im having trouble attaching the pictures ill have to post them when i figure out whats going on

[patsroom]

IMG_20170709_28116.jpg

My latest batch as I said is more mouse turd than sphere and they'll deafen you with a single crack.

 

OM, I check all of the old post in this topic here and was left with a few different formulas. My question for you would be the what complete formula did you use?........................Pat

Edited July 10, 2017 by patsroom

[insutama]

So the dried eggs unprimed still only burn like stars. im sure priming wont help because i dont even get a snap or crack.

Next ill try it with less kclo4. anything else i could be doing wrong ?

 

I made some normal DE today using NC laqour and they seemed to work alright unprimed so i know my chems are good.

I just dont understand why i cant even get a tiny crackle when using USA Pyros forumula.

 

Is there anything else i can try to make my eggs explode rather than flare up nice and bright ?

[usapyro]

So the dried eggs unprimed still only burn like stars. im sure priming wont help because i dont even get a snap or crack.

Next ill try it with less kclo4. anything else i could be doing wrong ?

 

I made some normal DE today using NC laqour and they seemed to work alright unprimed so i know my chems are good.

I just dont understand why i cant even get a tiny crackle when using USA Pyros forumula.

 

Is there anything else i can try to make my eggs explode rather than flare up nice and bright ?

 

Try without any oxidizer. If they burn, the mix is too reactive for some reason... Should only start to glow when you ignite with a torch. The ONLY reason the oxidizer is in there at all is because the mix won't smoulder or stay ignited with my MgAl. Some MgAl, and finer MgAl, it may work fine without any oxidizer.

 

Probably your MgAl has too fine a mesh mixed in. Mine, I can see all the granules of MgAl with the naked eye...

 

If it still burns with no oxidizer, I will be rather surprised... If that is the case, your only option is to lower the MgAl amount. But, if all fails. You could try to get a 200 mesh screen and remove any MgAl finer than that mesh... Good luck!

Edited July 10, 2017 by usapyro

[insutama]

Okay ill try that when im back from work probally be tomorrow evening but i will report back

 

So just remove the kclo4 ? Keep everything else the same ?

[usapyro]

Okay ill try that when im back from work probally be tomorrow evening but i will report back

 

So just remove the kclo4 ? Keep everything else the same ?

 

Yep, and if it still burns... I would be shocked if it does! Reduce the MgAl 20%. Otherwise, your hosed... You need to get rougher mesh (Actual 200-100) MgAl 50:50.

Edited July 10, 2017 by usapyro

[insutama]

awsome thanks Usa Pyro i have two things to try now when i get home. If not ill be looking for rougher mesh MgAL thanks

[insutama]

UPDATE:

So i tried the formula with no kclo4

This time there were very quite crackles they shot quite far from the egg when they exploded there was no smolder time it was instant and didnt perform nearly as good as the ones i had made with NC laqoure it still seems like its burning too fast im starting to think its my MgAl thats the problem

[lloyd]

Not me. I think it's the formula. If it's SO sensitive to relatively-small variations in particle size, it's not a good, reliable one.

 

(sorry if this might offend... but I personally like "forgiving" formulae; most especially in a commercial environment where you can't constantly control employees manipulations of the materials.)

 

Lloyd